The KD Ratio!
The KD Ratio!
The Evolution of Gaming and Summer Fun
This was taken directly from our livestream over on YouTube. Come check us out.
The following description was written by A.I.
Ever wondered why the song "Happy Birthday" has such a tangled copyright history? Join us as we kick off this episode with a hilarious celebration of Dylan’s birthday, complete with a funny take on the famous tune and some amusing tales of restaurant birthday songs. We dive into the quirky side of late summer, a period we’ve coined the "dirty part of summer," and share our entertaining attempts at decoding everyday acronyms like PSL. Amidst the fun, we also touch on the bittersweet timing of Dylan's birthday, which coincides with the decline of Game Informer, leading us down a nostalgic path filled with laughter and reflection.
Dust off your old Game Informer magazines and reminisce with us about the golden days of gaming media culture. Remember the thrill of finding a new issue in your mailbox and the excitement of midnight game releases? We share personal stories from our GameStop subscription days and the irreplaceable joy of creative cover art and physical game guides. As the gaming world shifts towards digital pre-orders and early access passes, we discuss what’s been lost and gained, expressing mixed emotions about the evolution of the industry. Our conversation meanders through the impact of digital trends on traditional gaming experiences, and we fondly recall the communal energy of those chilly midnight launches.
From Vince Vaughn’s candid thoughts on Hollywood’s IP obsession to the nuanced debate of business versus creativity in gaming, this episode covers it all. We explore the challenges gaming publications face in the digital age, compare the practices of AAA studios versus indie developers, and celebrate exceptions like Rockstar and CD Projekt Red. Our chat extends to the cultural significance of IP films and the shifting landscape of first-person shooters, where we speculate on future trends and innovations. Wrapping up with a playful debate on film casting choices and their potential impact, we invite you to catch us live on YouTube every Tuesday at 7 PM Pacific to join the fun, and maybe even get a shoutout as part of our quirky closing antics.
If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast
And we are live. I do believe so, hintleman, hold on, you might be streaming on a different. You can never figure out these scheduled broadcasts. Okay, we're dialed in.
Speaker 3:I always have to go in and delete the ones that never uploaded. I think we're dialed in. I always have to go in and delete the other ones that never uploaded.
Speaker 1:I think we're dialed in now.
Speaker 3:Happy birthday to you Happy birthday. To you Happy birthday, dear. Dylan. Happy birthday to you.
Speaker 4:Damn. I think we should put that on the radio.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Happy birthday, buddy. Thank you. Welcome to the podcast everybody. Tonight we got a lot of topics like what's Dylan up to.
Speaker 4:Well, right now got a lot of topics like what's dylan up? To well, right now. Happy fucking birthday, buddy. Thank you, it's my birthday be careful of copyright.
Speaker 3:Something cool gaming's, that's true, that song is copyrighted. What's?
Speaker 4:up cole, good to see you, rana, good to see you. Copyright strike gonna happen, uh we're not monetizing this.
Speaker 3:I don't think, isn't that?
Speaker 1:song for like the 1600s. I think we're in the clear I also.
Speaker 3:I think the copyright expired actually yeah, it should be good.
Speaker 1:I think we're okay guys, if the birthday people come after us.
Speaker 4:I think, uh, we're. They jump through the window. Yeah got these motherfuckers.
Speaker 1:Well, actually funny story. I used to work in a restaurant and that was the story that they always told us why we couldn't sing actual happy birthday. That's why when you go to a lot of restaurants, they have their own song.
Speaker 4:Their own version of it.
Speaker 1:Because that was always the story that they told us was. Well, actually, that song you can't sing and it's like who the fuck you know? Like am I can't sing it's? And it's like who the fuck you know? Like am I gonna sue I didn't work here? But like am I gonna sue the olive garden if I own the rights to happy birthday?
Speaker 4:because you know some mean all gardens got a lot of money they have the power.
Speaker 1:You're right, I'm thinking of it way too practically yeah, you're right, it's all about money.
Speaker 4:Some mom and pop shop like am I gonna sue some mom and pop shop you're're right, gentlemen, how we doing.
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful Tuesday, we just began August. We are in the later stages of summer. I call this the dirty part of summer because everything just starts looking red and we're transitioning into fall and things are starting to cool off. How?
Speaker 3:often have you called this the dirty part of summer.
Speaker 1:I call it the dirty.
Speaker 4:How long the dirty one?
Speaker 1:How long has this been a thing? Oh at least five minutes. Who do Okay?
Speaker 4:At least Right, that's pretty well established then.
Speaker 3:I'm surprised it hasn't really caught on, yeah.
Speaker 1:Dirty summer, we're starting it.
Speaker 3:The dirty part of summer. We're getting it wrong.
Speaker 1:Did you just say that and then think of why you call it that after you Did you make that up on the fly?
Speaker 3:No, that is wild.
Speaker 1:That's how I think of it. I don't know. To me I think of every. I'm a very visual person. So when I think of early June, I know it's technically not even summer yet, I don't believe, but you get that initial heat wave that comes in and it feels fresh.
Speaker 4:It feels new.
Speaker 1:Showerless it brings in. Yeah, he calls it dirty.
Speaker 3:Oh, there you go. What do you know?
Speaker 1:But it feels fresh, it feels like there's something new. And then you get that late stage summer where everything is just hot. You're kind of tired of catching on fire and I just think of like red. I get like red vibes and it's just like it's just dirty right, it's like steamy and in lubricious right lubricious I brought this word up before you guys checked me, and it's actually a fucking word.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's greasy. Okay, it's greasy. It's greasy, it's dirty. I don't need to explain myself any further. Okay, your summer is very different than mine. Psl, baby, I have no idea what that means. Psl Do you have any idea what that means?
Speaker 3:No, I don't think I do, jim Tan.
Speaker 1:Laundry GTL. I don't think I'm Jim Tan. Laundry GTL. I don't think I'm cool enough to know these acronyms.
Speaker 3:But here we are. This is we're in Nerd podcast.
Speaker 1:We are in August now, which is crazy to even think. We're past the halfway mark for sure for the year.
Speaker 4:Pumpkin spice latte.
Speaker 1:Oh sweet, Jesus, oh sweet. Look at the chat. They all know what the fuck they're talking about. Pumpkin spice, pumpkin, spice latte, that's what it is. I have not partaken.
Speaker 3:Ever Never had a pumpkin spice latte.
Speaker 1:No here's my thing, though. I love the flavor of pumpkin.
Speaker 4:Why have you never had?
Speaker 1:one. I don't like coffee, so leave it at that.
Speaker 4:Weirdo.
Speaker 1:I love the flavor of pumpkin though. I love the flavor of pumpkin though, like pumpkin cookies, pumpkin bread, pumpkin pie, so good.
Speaker 3:We laugh at him because he's different. He laughs because we're all the same. God, that's poetic. He's not a sheep.
Speaker 4:That's poetic. I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to quote that you know who said that Me? I'm just claiming it. Did you get that from somewhere?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, like that's really funny a couple years ago at work, I was taking pictures of everybody, turning them into like sigma male memes and that was like. That was like a sigma meme quote that I looked up once and then, yeah, it makes sense around that time, sheepleeple.
Speaker 1:yeah Well, we're here to celebrate Dylan's birthday, which coincidentally coincides with Podcast. The death of Game Informer.
Speaker 4:There's a lot of death coinciding with my birthday, but we don't have to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Obviously I'm not going to go into why Game Informer failed or why.
Speaker 3:I think it's fucking obvious. Let's offer our analysis. We don't need to find out, let's offer our analysis.
Speaker 2:We don't need that. Let's talk about a company based on magazines.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about. How did they not transition the way IGN did?
Speaker 1:Yeah right, like that's their fault. Let's get into everybody's top 10 favorite articles from. Just kidding, just kidding.
Speaker 4:Back in 2005.
Speaker 1:No, what did game informer mean to you guys? Because for me it was like I was thinking about what, that, what? When we decided we were going to talk about this, I was thinking about what game informer meant to me as a kid. It was the first mail that I had to me yeah, I think and I felt, like an adult and that was like one of the things I appreciated the most about.
Speaker 3:It was like I gotta go check the mail you know, I think, the game informers out there, you know, 12 years old like I gotta go check on my uh, my uh game uh game spot, uh, whatever game stop subscription.
Speaker 1:Make sure my magazine shows up you know, check the dailies.
Speaker 4:It was cool to get.
Speaker 3:I was subscribed to Game Informer for almost 10 years.
Speaker 1:What was the name of their? Was it the Power Pass?
Speaker 4:They had the Power Pass.
Speaker 1:It was the Power Pass, right? I had this little silver card in my wallet.
Speaker 3:I had a credit card with GameStop. It closed itself out because it sat at zero for too long, but I had a credit card with GameStop for a while. I did too.
Speaker 1:I was that level. I didn't. But like I always enjoy, I can't sit there and say I read that shit from cover to cover every single month. But I will say I always enjoyed seeing it because it was like the top two or three things going to go on for the next quarter or whatever. They were right there on the front page and you kind of thumb through it and see it. You didn't read it to see like, oh, what's the review on this game? At least I didn't.
Speaker 3:It was really what's upcoming?
Speaker 4:I would look at what's upcoming but I'd look forward to reviews on, like, what was already, what just came out, or something like that I, I did, and I I was a kid, and so this was this would have been around.
Speaker 3:Well, game informers are very recent, so this could have been last year, but, uh, when I was subscribed to game informer I was it was like I don't know 2000, between 2005, 2010, I was actually subscribed to it all the way up until I remember reading one it was a witcher, the witcher 3 review was in it. So, like 2015 was like, and that was like the last one, because I just let it, I didn't renew it, um, but anyways, 2005 is probably like right around when I first started and as a kid, um, I didn't like go on youtube to watch reviews because I didn't even know what I was looking for, like. So, like game informer, I was like, oh, this a nine had a, 10 I'm buying this immediately.
Speaker 1:This is incredible and at least I'm begging my mom to buy it immediately. Yeah, that's how I felt, like I I leveraged it was what looks cool, what had really cool concept art and then, like that's what I would, would inform my buying decisions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's amazing how fast that was made basically irrelevant once the internet really started to pop off with all its spots because then, like I had no attachment to game informer and I think at some level it was really just a marketing thing you knew that people paid for spots in there and that was that. So once you found things like reviewers on YouTube or these niche websites that you would really appreciate this feedback because you knew they were unbiased, it was like okay, shelve that, let's see you later yeah, and, but not even the reviews.
Speaker 4:But I would say the final name, the coffin is when all the gaming companies didn't give them like exclusives anymore, like reveals, so like, because that's where I would turn to for a lot of like oh shoot, this game's coming out, yeah, but then they didn't have. You know like I could get that information a lot easier online yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:I mean we've got a couple things in the chat here, so loved getting their magazines. I saved some so many covers. Some of my favorite games had cover art on there. Definitely a solid period of gaming before the internet popped off with magazines, slash, other media Exactly what we're talking about here, right? I used to love the cover art.
Speaker 3:God, the cover art was cool.
Speaker 1:I probably made more purchasing decisions based on the cover art than anything else.
Speaker 3:I think gaming cover art like in general, has gone really downhill. Like they used to make covers of like on the covers of games, Like they used to look so much cooler.
Speaker 4:They had a map inside.
Speaker 3:And now it's like the same thing. No matter what genre, what game, it's always the same thing.
Speaker 4:every time it's the main character standing looking cool On a mountain, maybe On a mountain or whatever, but that's it every time there's no cool cover art anymore, it's the same thing every time I'm trying to think of what it is on Steam.
Speaker 1:I don't even know if there is cover art. I think when you go to a homepage of a Steam game, I think it launches right into a video. I a Steam game, I think it launches right into a video. I think it literally like there's not even a cover there's not even a show cover anymore, it's just right into like here's our promotion pitch for why you should buy this. Bring back midnight releases and game guides damn it.
Speaker 3:Buying a game guide now is just to say you did, but like you, don't even need them anymore. Everything's online. I miss game guides, though I think it's one of those things that the game guides themselves have been changed.
Speaker 1:In fact, they've probably gotten even more high quality. But what has changed is how people interact and consume games. You don't want a game guide for the whole fucking game. You're trying to go for this one achievement, or how do I go and get that weapon? You want to see a four-minute clip on YouTube that's going to show you exactly how to get there. That's your game guide. These days, you know to get that. I love midnight releases. Those were so fun.
Speaker 1:How many times have we talked about midnight releases on this podcast and how enjoyable they are?
Speaker 3:Not more than ten, but at least five.
Speaker 1:Some of the best fun I know Did you participate a lot in them Once.
Speaker 4:It wasn't.
Speaker 3:It was for Kirby Dreamland 2 Yep. The midnight release party was pretty wild. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:I feel like I went to some midnight releases and it was all about the crowd energy. You would go there A bunch of nerds If you were standing out in the cold. I went to some midnight releases and it was all about the crowd energy. You would go there, a bunch of nerds, If you were standing out in the cold and there was no energy. And you're next to a 64-year-old dude who's questionable decisions. Why is everyone in this line 15,? And here's this guy. What are we doing here?
Speaker 3:That's going to be me soon, I know. Then that's this guy?
Speaker 1:What are we doing here? That's going to be me soon, I know. Then that's not fun If there's four people in line, or the people who wait in their car and then get out at the last second. I always loved and I have seven examples of this. You're in line, they're doing trivia. Hey, who has this? Who bought this? Answer this question and you get this free poster. Oh, you want some shirt, like just swag, to like really build up energy around the game remember at the game you're about to buy like oh man at the modern warfare 3
Speaker 3:uh at the midnight release at the mall, which was awesome because you were indoors so it wasn't cold 100 um. They had a call duty contest. They were like 1v1s and I forgot what you won, like maybe a free copy of the game or something, um, and it was like actually, like really fun it was competitive too and I remember your brother.
Speaker 3:your brother entered. He was so mad. It was xbox, it was on xbox, he was used to playstation and he's actually he was really in his prime, he was really good at the game. But he went out like the first round, yeah, and he like was so, and he like he was like it's because it was on Xbox and he was so pissed about it. But it was not a showcase of how good he was. He was so mad about it.
Speaker 4:He's like I'm about to punk these nerds it's punked.
Speaker 1:Something cool. Gaming says now games launch at 9 pm on a digital store the night of release. Well, and then, if you, you know you don't forget you could buy the pre-pass and get it three days early.
Speaker 4:Yeah um you know and reload it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you could pre-load it, which I all.
Speaker 3:These things are great things, yeah I honestly I can complain about it, but like you probably could.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing pre-order games at GameStop. Yeah, here's the thing.
Speaker 3:If someone says are you going to go to the midnight release party for a game, I would never bring myself to do that anymore. Because like, why would? I.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly.
Speaker 3:So like it's, like nostalgia goggles for sure.
Speaker 1:100%, I totally agree with that. But I think it's because of how they're done. Like your one experience, you were like, eh, it was nothing. I feel like there's ways to go about doing it. One of the things I never understood is they didn't let people into the store. I always thought that was a bad move. Especially the big release window was at the end of the year right, it was cold as shit, let them in store.
Speaker 3:That's why it was fun at the mall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let them play the fucking game that they're about to buy or something. If you can do that I don't know if legally you can do that but let them play the game on the console and store, or let them play the prequel to it or do something to just get the energy up. It's kind of fun to have that experience as a community where you're like with 30 or 40 people. You've already paid for the game. No, there's other games.
Speaker 3:There's. You've already paid for the game. No, like there's like a couple hundred people in line and like two GameStop workers. They probably like crowd management is.
Speaker 4:They're jacking all these other off the shelves. I mean, I know they're all in their back little cabinet.
Speaker 1:but that's a really negative opinion, I think.
Speaker 4:But that's I think very realistic.
Speaker 3:Very realistic. I go to midnight releases to steal games. I don't think they would go for that specifically. But you get a bunch of teenagers fucking like dude, let's just fucking take this pop. You know what I mean. I could see it happening.
Speaker 1:Ubisoft launching $130 version of games. Get the hell out of here. Who wants to pay for a game to play three days early Garbage.
Speaker 4:You're right, something cool gaming.
Speaker 1:Let's pay $150 to play early. $150 and I can play five days early. That's what I want to do. This is where it's going. What was the Ubisoft game that did that? Assassin's Creed, or something?
Speaker 4:They did that with FIFA and it didn't work. The game was unplayable EA did that with. Fifa.
Speaker 1:Or.
Speaker 4:EA did.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that wasn't Ubisoft.
Speaker 4:Ubisoft probably did it with Black Flag.
Speaker 1:They must have done it with Assassin's Creed. Yeah, it's all of them now.
Speaker 4:The pirate one Skull and Bones.
Speaker 1:Skull and Bones yeah, that's the one that immediately jumped out of mind the first quadruple A game.
Speaker 4:Yeah, first quadruple A.
Speaker 3:Whatever that fucking means. This is a double D battery game.
Speaker 1:The moment they dropped that line, everyone knew like okay we're having a bad time.
Speaker 4:I knew way before then it wasn't even.
Speaker 3:Apparently I haven't played it, so this might not be a fair judgment, but people said it didn't even have as many features as Assassin's Creed Black Flag.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's true. It wasn't even as good as Black Flag. The entire community is screaming like give us that. Don't even have to change it, put it in a new game and that's fine. And then they iterated on it and it made it worse.
Speaker 4:No, they didn't iterate.
Speaker 3:That's the thing they, they like, took away backwards.
Speaker 1:Well yeah that's what I mean. They, they, they devolved had their own strategic vision.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's like like because I I love black flag, I think. I mean I know you guys don't like ship combat right or kyle doesn't it's me specifically.
Speaker 3:I don't like naval combat games I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 4:I thought black Black Flag did it well. You dropped an L there.
Speaker 3:That was an accident for anyone that was.
Speaker 4:I said the correct one. I think it did it really well. I think, skull Bones, I'm going to put on my conspiracy hat here. Ubisoft made a deal in Singapore with Singapore, the government that they could build.
Speaker 1:Boy, this is deep Buckling.
Speaker 4:They would build.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Cole.
Speaker 4:Got our back. I appreciate it they could build a place out in singapore, but they had to produce a game, ubisoft, um. Use that place to go on vacations like all the big head, that big wigs, and when it came time, what the fuck are we?
Speaker 1:I need it. Keep feeding it, because I'm lost here.
Speaker 4:When it started to come time, where Singapore was like hey, we let you build this facility, where's our game Skull and bones? So it was made in the Singapore. So the higher-ups could go on vacation.
Speaker 3:So it's like how. Adam Sandler makes movies, yeah, where he finds plot reasons could go on vacation, so it's like how Adam Sandler makes movies, yeah, where he finds plot reasons to be some really awesome place Okay.
Speaker 1:Quadruple A. I think so Quadruple A Because when you translate English three A's in English to Singaporean it's four A's actually.
Speaker 3:Don't backtrack that. What if that? Was like something that simple.
Speaker 1:It's actually quadruple eight, depending on who you ask. Okay, well, uh, that's wild possible let's talk about ips for a minute, since that we're kind of touching this what's that?
Speaker 4:are we done with game informer?
Speaker 1:did you have any closing thoughts on that or?
Speaker 4:I kind of did. I mean, I think they should have seen the writing on the wall when g4 tried to come back yeah, um, I don't think they cared.
Speaker 3:What a shame that that turned into I don't think they cared.
Speaker 1:I think they, they, they. They should have seen the writing on the wall in 2006, you know, but the reality is, is it's? I think they just wanted to be what they were and let it. Let it fizzle out until it wasn't was there?
Speaker 3:how was their online presence ever that significant? No, I mean they had a website, I imagine. Well, remember they see you imagine
Speaker 1:remember they had like their digital version or whatever, and it was like that, like you got the copy and the digital, and I don't think I ever once went to it like as much as we harp on ign for being.
Speaker 3:How are? At least they kind of evolved with the times.
Speaker 4:Do you remember? Ign had an app.
Speaker 3:No IGN had an app.
Speaker 4:I used to have it on my iPod Touch. Any good, it was good. They had your daily news so you could see daily game news and you could click on reviews and it'd have the review.
Speaker 1:I wish we had something like that today. I'm sure there's still ig. Well, no, now it's just called reddit and you go to this gaming subreddit and that's that's. It is what it is. I got rid of reddit game before. I had a website, youtube and podcast, live streaming and probably more wow, so they had everything they needed to have to succeed.
Speaker 4:Just nobody. Very few people supported, I mean, they were talking about an audience.
Speaker 3:I don't think we were versed enough in game informer to know what they were doing bullshit.
Speaker 1:We both had the credit card, that's game stop?
Speaker 4:yeah, but come on, is game stop?
Speaker 4:yeah, but like, like you you're talking about, like they're fucking vip customers and we didn't even know about this is so long ago this is over 10 years ago, well, but I think it's such a niche that, even though you were the vip, like we evolved and I guess it sounds like they tried to evolve but just never did- nobody I mean I wasn't versed enough on the modern game informer other than like oh, when I'd look at a new game like oh, they gave elden ring a 10 cool right.
Speaker 1:But that's what I'm saying. They did a really shitty job of shifting their consumers into that model, because well, we were entrenched in their products and had no idea as evidenced by their downfall. Yeah or didn't care. I mean, that's, that's the reality. I think there was just so much like it's not, like damn I. I wish I would have known that I didn't lose anything, because I didn't. Let's just make it that we need to short GameStop again. Yeah, and then?
Speaker 1:Roaring Kitty will have something to say about that and just juice up the market a little bit more. Hold, let's talk about IPs for a second. I forget how I launched, how I was triggered into launching, ubisoft, black ubisoft, the skull and bones assassin's creed. There you go. Thank you, vince vaughn.
Speaker 3:Okay, trump, vince vaughn you're doing the trumping good.
Speaker 1:I got small hands just good um, vince vaughn just did an episode of Hot Ones. Hot Ones is on a streak right now. They've had some really good back-to-back.
Speaker 4:They had Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman.
Speaker 1:But Vince Vaughn was just on there, I haven't watched it, yet it was one of the best Hot Ones episodes ever. That's a lot to claim.
Speaker 3:There's so many good ones, I agree.
Speaker 4:Didn't Sean say this is his last season, though?
Speaker 1:Ever, ever. Wow, I wonder why. I wonder what he's going to fit it into.
Speaker 3:Are you friends with him? I am, you're just cool enough to be on a first-name basis.
Speaker 1:Sean you know Sean Chee Sean.
Speaker 4:Chee, the white man, sean Evans, yeah, sean Evans.
Speaker 1:Well, hold on. So he interviewed Vince Vaughn and it was one of the first off. He was goaded in the terms of like going through the hot ones challenge. Vince Vaughn did better than anyone I've ever seen. He not only did like a crazy, Better than. Dj Khaled, oh god, better than Paul Rudd, which is insane. He not only doused his last wing in the last one, he then went back and doused it in Da Bomb, which is never my, I'd never seen one on his very last wing.
Speaker 1:Do every all in one yeah, but he put them all in one and then just dipped it into that like hodgepodge.
Speaker 3:So, like he went, he had that and then he went back and had a dousing of I'm just a little worried you're over-hyping this, for when I watch it, if it's not the best Hot Ones episode?
Speaker 4:He is over-hyping it, Kyle.
Speaker 1:I haven't even gotten to the fucking point that I'm going to You're calling me out. Listen.
Speaker 1:I have severe ADD. All right, this podcast. I watched it twice. Granted, I was kind of working so I didn't pick up on everything he was talking about, but I watched it a second time. That's how awesome it was. First off, vince Vaughn is just a fun guy. But he talked about this idea back to IPs that Hollywood is struggling with and I think this is probably going through with games and publishing companies, because I think they try to follow the same model.
Speaker 1:But but he talked, vince vaughn was talking about how hollywood gotten this idea of like every idea had to be an ip, so yeah so it was like let's build a story, okay, now let's attach it to this ip, and he brought up the example battleship like he's like it's a board game we played.
Speaker 1:Now all of a sudden it's gotta be like a movie. That's about something else. But they use the battleship IP cause. It's recognizable and it's like the thesis he gives is. It's like if you're doing math and you say a right angle is 85 degrees and not 90 degrees, well all your, the rest of your geometry is going to be off because your base assumption is wrong and so, like that's how all these decisions like that, your understanding at a fundamental level is off, which then makes every decision like a cascading failure from there. And so he talked about like john hughes movies.
Speaker 1:But going back in the day of like and and I your IP, if you want to use that language would just be something as simple. As you know, a girl turning 16 or um, you know, kids getting into a little trouble together and something like just things that we go through as everyday life, as humans Forget about me Exactly.
Speaker 1:So I thought this was kind of interesting because I feel like we're kind of in that space as like as public, we're being thrown a lot of this shit from publishing companies where they try to attach things, and it's like why is that a video game? Why is it called that? Um?
Speaker 3:everything has to be the next live service.
Speaker 1:Something right, they're all trying to fit into that model, because it's like that's what everyone else is doing, so and and it's like this twisted view of making games and it's like it's the business side, I think, influencing the creative side, which it's a little weird or maybe there's people I mean, that's triple a for sure.
Speaker 3:but that's also that very mindset that people are aware of is why indie games really popped off last couple of years, and they have been more popular than probably ever. Because I think consumers are aware of that. They're aware of the way AAA studios approach games, and the freedom to be creative or unique or approach things in a new way just isn't there on AAA. It's there in indie games, but a studio would never risk a bunch of money on a concept that may or may not succeed, whereas an indie game they could do that.
Speaker 3:They'd be like let's try this. This is an experimental way to approach this, something that might be fun and unique, and it may or may not be successful. If it's not, it's whatever. We spent all of $1,000 developing this.
Speaker 1:So something cool? Gaming says you have Rockstar and FromSoftware saying fuck you to the entire industry and doing what they want and releasing when they want. Respect. I don't know about Rockstar too much releasing when they want.
Speaker 3:Respect. I don't know about Rockstar too much With Grand Theft Auto, yeah, okay. They do what they want.
Speaker 4:They do what they want, but they're greedy.
Speaker 3:They're very greedy and they catered.
Speaker 4:You think? Grand Theft Auto's greedy GT Online, that's.
Speaker 1:Rockstar, I get it, but GTA Online, that's them reaping the benefits of them having success.
Speaker 4:They had expansions planned for Red Dead. No.
Speaker 1:And they canceled them because they couldn't fit it to a microtransaction model right.
Speaker 3:They couldn't. Yeah, they determined it wasn't going to be profitable enough. That's great, I love certain Rockstar games, though I think it is. I can see, okay, rockstar is, they almost are like they operate on both sides of the fence here. They develop high-quality, amazing games, um, but they've also done things in the past, like with shark cards and things like that where, like, they fall guilty to all the same shit that's plaguing all these other triple a games, um, but there it's a little bit more forgivable with them because they also are just developing that, that really high tier pristine, you know single player
Speaker 3:experience, um, and then the multiplayer. Then they'll be like we've gathered all these people, they love our games. Now we're gonna fuck you over with getting you involved into, like you know, gambling, simulator and things like that. You know what I mean, so like I can see, um, they, they do play on both sides of that yeah, see, and to me, like everybody knows the day gta6 ships, rockstar is collecting a billion dollar check.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, it's probably gonna break records again I remember the first, I remember gta5 came out and they, they did 600 million the day one, 600 on, I think, pre-orders and then day one copies sold.
Speaker 3:We looked up the lifetime sales of GTA V at one point it was insane. It was like more than any movie that had ever.
Speaker 1:Don't they still collect like a couple million a day in terms?
Speaker 3:of daily revenue oh yeah, something crazy yeah. My problem, I think, is Rockstar. They do put a lot of love and care into their titles, but they're also their business, so you know it's fair. But they um, they're driven primarily by what will net them the most money and because of that they've abandoned some of they've abandoned things that people love and care about, like, like red dead.
Speaker 3:You know that red dead 2 is the pinnacle of their storytelling and, um, like their, their single-player gaming. But they, they abandoned it very, very quickly because it wasn't making as much money as gta. And so from a business perspective, I mean, it's kind of obvious why they do that they have to make money. But from the gamers perspective, it is kind of a bummer when you know like they could still make a ton of money on red dead but they don't. They didn't continue it because, you know, make a half a billion dollars versus making a billion dollars you know what I mean.
Speaker 4:Where should they spend?
Speaker 4:their resources and I would say, just being able to watch other companies do it differently, also kind of help like forms that opinion or shapes that opinion for me, like I know, cd project red they messed up, right they, they shipped cyberpunk. It was broken, but they still, they still committed. They originally had two expansions, but to me it makes sense why they went down to one. It's because they had to fix the game first and then, but they still did an expansion like and to me that says that says a lot. It shows that they, they are storytellers like and a business, but they're storytellers I think not that rockstar because they they're storytellers.
Speaker 3:I think not that Rockstar because they're too big of a company to ever like they would never release a game. I don't think I say that now. We said that about.
Speaker 3:CD. Yeah, I don't think Rockstar would ever release a single player. At least they've had trouble with their multiplayer games, but they would never release a single player game in that state. But if they had, I think that they're the type of company that would just abandon altogether and then just focus heavily on what they're making money in. They wouldn't sit there and commit to try and fixing it If Red Dead 2 was a buggy mess at launch.
Speaker 4:There's still bugs in Red Dead 2.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but it's not anything on the level of where CD Projekt, cd Projekt Red's Cyberpunk was. But if Red Dead 2 had launched in the state that, uh, cyberpunk launched, I think they would have just completely abandoned it, not tried to fix it and focused all on red dead or gta online. Um, and I think that's the difference between, like, a company that there's cd project is a smaller studio, so they kind of had to do it to save face, whereas gta could probably take a hit like that and still get by, because I mean, ea and ubisoft do it all the time.
Speaker 1:Bioware, bioware, yeah um, but thrive on this.
Speaker 3:I think that's the mindset that we're talking about, uh, on what we like to see out of studios. You know that it might not be the most fiscally advantageous thing to do, but so Red Dead had no DLC?
Speaker 1:No, did Red Dead 2 have any DLC?
Speaker 3:Oh, no, red Dead 1 did have a DLC. Okay, it had Undead Nightmare, which is actually really really good.
Speaker 1:Amazing Red Dead 2 pretty much launched, had a top tier story, good campaign, and then and then and then they just didn't do anything with it yeah, I think my opinion is like I think gamers need to kind of stop almost like worshiping not worshiping, but like simping to these kind of these corporations you know as much as we do where it's like, oh, why couldn't you do that?
Speaker 1:because it would be so awesome, and it's just like well, like these companies, they have finite resources and, of course, sitting down, like you, you want to, if you're, if you're running a business, right, your decision is what's going to have like the highest rate of return, and there's a way to go about doing that that doesn't sacrifice short-term beliefs for, like long-term mistakes, right? So like the idea is like rockstar could have shipped gta6 four years ago, could have been broken, doesn't matter, they'd clip that billion dollar check just because the name alone, and have a nice fucking day you know, and that would be a short-term decision to make that money, but it'd be a long-term mistake because they couldn't do a gta7.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. So now it's like they have to balance that money, but it'd be a long-term mistake because they couldn't do a GTA 7. You know what I mean. So now it's like they have to balance that of quality and quantity and decision-making with what they're going to do. And I think obviously GTA 5 online is one of the most profitable things that exists and it's wildly successful and there's hundreds of thousands of people that still engage with that content. So I don't blame them for funneling resources into that, as a business.
Speaker 1:I don't blame it at all. Yeah, right, yeah, exactly. And so, like I think I feel like this happened this occurs a lot of times is like us, as gamers, we want to. We, because you enjoy an ip so much, and you're like, oh, I want to have more content, and then, when people move on, you kind of have that void. I think this kind of goes into what I was talking about last week. That's why I like the live service model, because technically, it's always still alive, at least if it's done well.
Speaker 1:The games that I've played like Guild Wars 1 came out 20-something years ago. It came out like 20 years ago, 19 years ago, um, like I could still go and play that, you know, and still experience all that same stuff that I love. I like that. I like that I could still go online and there's people playing it and it's not getting shut down. I mean, I see this stuff nowadays where these live service games from these ultra mega greedy corporations. They published these games and then abandoned them in four years and then the people that did suffer through it and found some enjoyment in it get fucked over because they can't even do it.
Speaker 3:It's literally a cyberpunk happening before our very eyes.
Speaker 1:Yep, it's sad, it's really sad.
Speaker 4:Well, I want to go back to the movie, the Vince Vaughn thing. Did you guys have anything else to say about?
Speaker 3:the side tangent we were on Nope.
Speaker 4:So I want to go back to the IPs. I think that I don't remember if you said it was solely to blame the movie companies. I think general audience takes a lot of the blame for that. Yeah, because the market adapts to what the general audience likes, and so these big name, big action IPs of like Marvel.
Speaker 4:They sell Versus back in the day, you know, like Ferris Bueller. Or you know they sell Versus back in the day like Ferris Bueller or Sweet 16, I felt like it was a time when you could release those because there wasn't other stuff. That was like Not everything was a brand, yeah. But now the general audience has said we like this and we'll go see that guaranteed.
Speaker 3:Movies that just want to be good for the sake of one movie just don't release in theaters anymore either. It's like Netflix, Amazon they don't want to take the risk on doing a theatrical release because they're going to have to compete with the next billion dollar, 500 million dollar budget film.
Speaker 4:Well, I'm sure they have studies that show that that risk isn't even like. There's no reason to take it. But I think that.
Speaker 1:I think it's an absolute loss. I think that that's. I actually don't think that the blame is on on the consumer on this at all. No, because I think that that's the exact thing that vince vaughn is arguing against. The idea is okay, you pair like. That's the twisted idea that I think he's like saying is fundamentally flawed, which is oh, you pair it up with this. That's the twisted idea that I think he's like saying is fundamentally flawed, which is oh, you pair it up with this big brand Battleship is the one he told about and people go see it because they're like oh, Battleship, you know, and they recognize it. Again, I think that only works in the short term. Then people, two or three times in, get burned and it's like they wisen up to it and now it's like no one's going to go see Battleship 2.
Speaker 3:Or no one's going to go see, I kind of like the first Battleship. I'm not going to lie. Yeah, I was going to say you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know. It's just like dumb fun General.
Speaker 3:I mean Lee Neeson's in it, for some reason.
Speaker 1:But I don't think at the end of the what has staying power in terms of a film that has an impact on culture, or staying power in terms of generating revenue downstream, I think it's a short-term win that produces no long-term results. So I think the logic is flawed.
Speaker 3:I don't know, though, because I don't know if it is short-term, because they've been doing this since 2000. I would say the first movie that really kind of did this, that what the thing you're talking about is probably transformers yeah, that's kind of when we started um 2007 and pretty much from 2007 till now. That has been the mindset and so I don't think there's been in. They haven't really experienced up until very, very, very recently with all the marvel films. Uh, they haven't really experienced the downside like the talking about the like.
Speaker 3:I think and I don't even know if that's people are burnt out on that style of movie. I think that people are. I think the quality of those films have gone down.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, is what it is especially when you look at like wolverine and deadpool.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the quality on that one's a lot more on par or even above par but I think what you're arguing is that the they will continue to do this as long as it makes them money, which ultimately is on the, the consumer and the market will shift and you know if they stop going, if they stop treating these ip films like they're, you know, like peak cinema sacred and start giving these other films a chance, like you know, like they used to in the 80s and 90s, then it might shift, uh, what people are focused on.
Speaker 1:But I, I would, but I would push back and argue in a sense of let's take it before. I think Wolverine and Deadpool has done a lot to repair a lot of things. Mcu is one.
Speaker 3:For the IP film.
Speaker 1:So let's shelve that. Let's have this argument two months ago. What do you think the state of cinema is? I would say it's probably not in the best of shape. To be honest, as a whole, in my opinion.
Speaker 3:No, I agree with you, but I think maybe the reason why I think, yeah, the reason why is, I think, the quality.
Speaker 1:You guys are arguing the quality has dropped because they're just leaning on the IP to carry the movie and that's. You don't get anything interesting from that. Who gives a shit?
Speaker 1:if it's you don't go to see the movie because you want to see somebody playing Battleship. You know, I know I'm using that example or whatever, but the quality has dropped and I think, as such, I'm not as motivated to go wait in line and see things at the movie theater, because I just wait for it to get at home, so then the market would adjust. Exactly.
Speaker 4:That's what I'm saying, if enough people.
Speaker 1:And I think here we are for so many years.
Speaker 4:This is where I'm agreeing with Vince. We've made this.
Speaker 1:What's all these first names Sean, mr Vince, mr Vaughn so many decisions for so many years? Because it worked and it was the lazy way and it was late. It was like the lazy way to work and get it done and I think that industry sort of took a hit because that was that's what everything was funneled into. I think we might even be in the same kind of thing with video games. Right like we see a lot of like stale shit coming out because it's like well, this, we know this will work less risk, we know we can squeeze this out. And it's like well, this, we know this will work less risk, we know we can squeeze this out. And it's just simple, we we're comfortable with that's why we're just talking.
Speaker 3:That's why the indie game is starting to surge exactly I think that gamers are a little bit better at shifting the well there's they're louder.
Speaker 1:Sports they're louder. They're still FIFA, they're louder. They're fucking louder.
Speaker 3:Gamers as consumers, I think, are a little bit more vocal. They have a little bit more power and effect on making change than, I would say, movie consumers are.
Speaker 1:They're the worst clients to have.
Speaker 3:They are but if CD Projekt Red was a film studio and they released a bad movie, they would be like oh fuck it. You know it happens, it is what it is, you move on. Yeah, but you know that just that doesn't happen in gaming. If you release a bad game, you fucking fix that shit. It's like cd yeah so, like the film equivalent would be like if you released a bad film, you doubling down and making a sequel to that film to make it better well, and not only that.
Speaker 4:If you release the bad, like if you release a bad game on the internet for years, people are gonna shit on your company versus pacific rim 2 is ass, but you don't hear me saying legendary, those motherfuckers legendary is let me down no, I think if you release a bad game, it's forever bad.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I don't think it ever fully recovers. I know you gave your example of no Man's Sky or whatever. That had a shitload of updates over time.
Speaker 4:I was just more saying gamers are going to hold on to it forever, forever versus a movie, but it's also different a movie there's a lot more. There's different people that take the blame, like for pacific two, I blame the writers and the director versus legendary, because I I understand that legendary is just like the, the money, you know, the wallet, wallet. But then even then, I don't remember writers.
Speaker 3:But we also don't blame the studios for bad films either.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know like we blame studio game studios for bad games Like CD Projekt.
Speaker 4:how could you do this to me?
Speaker 3:It's like on the director but yeah, but like if you see a bad movie you don't go out of it and you're like fuck Universal, I'm never watching a Universal film again.
Speaker 1:You of it and you're like fuck universal, I'm never watching a universal film again. You see, bad they've scorned me one too many times. That's weird.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is really weird huh I think, there's more degrees of separation I feel like that too.
Speaker 1:It's like it's its own isolated box and it's like they just fun. It would be like if you blamed this happens in the game industry. You blame the publisher for that bad developer, but we do, we do. God gamers suck If you're just tuning in we're bitching about gamers. Be sure to like and subscribe if you already haven't. Good to see everybody. If you're a gamer, fuck you. If you're a gamer fuck, you Get out.
Speaker 3:No, stay please 90%. We're like a marvel slash gaming podcast oh god, that's so true.
Speaker 1:It is interesting to see how everybody the gamers are. I play games with that. People have spent 20, 30 000 hours in and if you talk to them about the game you think they fucking hated the damn thing. You know because they know every little thing wrong with it.
Speaker 4:But then there's also stuff. I mean I guess you see this with movies. I would say you see those movies more of like, of like I was saying with fifa or madden or like any type of like. The even call of duty now is almost getting to the level of it's like me from an outside perspective. I'm like guys, like why are you still supporting this game? Like this is garbage. No, but they do.
Speaker 3:I know people could say that like as us, and Marvel films for, like the last five years, four years.
Speaker 3:But look at Wolverine, I know, but that's what it's the same thing like everyone's one good one, like every once in the blue, like we I mean, I've definitely died down a little bit on like that, because I never even saw like the third ant-man or you know, because I had a lot of fatigue there but like um, that's basically like the same thing is like buying every Call of Duty and then once in every 10 years you get like that war zone. That kind of pops off a little bit and then it goes back to, you know, kind of being shit and that's kind of what has been happening to Marvel a little bit. And I know we were last podcast, we were excited about the future of Marvel and I still am, but there's no denying that like the quality really really I'm excited for the long-term future of marvel yeah not the short term not short term yeah, they still have two ones and I'm like oh, but like I think,
Speaker 4:um, daniel, good to see you I think a lot of that too and this can be applied to gaming is if the company takes their time, and that's what, like that's what happened with Marvel, is what Bob Iger or who's the yeah, yeah, bob Iger, that's the Disney CEO. Yeah, he came in and he put his foot down for. Marvel to slow down and I think that's going to help tremendously. I don't think it affected Wolverine and Deadpool at all. I'm sure that was in the work way before he came in and said that.
Speaker 3:But I think that'll.
Speaker 1:I think because it was a fox film really, and then it became a disney film but I wonder if someone objectively studied these things and if the quality really did dip or it was just simply over saturation I think the quality did it I do agree, I definitely think so. But how much is it? How much did it drop? If you were just objectively some way you were able to measure that, how much did it drop? And how much was just observation bias of just there being so much?
Speaker 3:Because it did drop, it felt weird. Well, that was a huge part of it, for sure.
Speaker 1:You came from this high of like in all three of our opinions. Peak cinema, I mean. That was like that was freaking chef's kiss, clap it up, you know. Standing ovation in the theater. Shit To what was the immediate movie after that no Way Home. Okay, well, see, that's terrible that was still good. No, it wasn't fucking Endgame, it wasn't.
Speaker 3:Endgame. It's just because of spider-man, let's move on 100 was it as good? As end game no no but it was it was good. Why would I mean? That'd be like saying, doctor, strange 2 was yes, it was as good as end game, you know what I mean like some games are bad.
Speaker 1:Some bad games are nostalgia. I'm not sure what that means, just some bad like you enjoy to play.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, there's games that we look back on fondly, that if we went back and actually played and like looked at it like you know like this game sucks like, and we compared it to games.
Speaker 1:Now it's like it isn't as good as like you ever go back and play a game and you you I'm talking like a really old game and you go.
Speaker 3:I used to think the graphics were pretty good and, like you're looking at and you're like that shit is so bad like I can't even read that you know what I experienced that most with, like very recently, actually star wars, star wars battlefront I because I was like I remember I used to sit here and play single player star wars battlefront, star wars battlefront 2 for hours a day and when they relaunched or re-released star wars battlefront, I was like, okay, multiplayer is broken, but I still loved the game single player, so I'll probably still play it. I played like two matches and I was like this is kind of like boring as fuck and like I don't remember being boring when I like what. Like. Do you know what?
Speaker 1:it is tastes shifted so hard um I honestly think it it's shooters. I don't enjoy shooters anymore. I really don't.
Speaker 3:I've played. I think I could still have fun with shooters.
Speaker 1:We played Helldivers and I thought the combat Well, the combat wasn't really that great, but I liked the great game design. I could appreciate it. I thought it was really cool. The combat needed to be a little more dynamic. It was really stiff and I just couldn't fully submit to it. I've really stiff and I just couldn't fully submit to it. We've I've played some of the new call of duties.
Speaker 4:I've played warframe on and off, for you know years what warframe to me is honestly not good shooter likewise I know I was still one of the most popular games out there it's not my cup of tea, but to me, like I would ask, I ask.
Speaker 1:I know the whole game. I would agree. Well, yeah, I was going to ask.
Speaker 4:I know you don't like Destiny, but how did you feel about the shooting aspect? Because I think to me that's like shooting shooters that's pretty high up at like top of the game of what a shooter is supposed to feel like Okay, so if I'm speaking objective, taking my opinion of Destiny, out of it which actually is not a negative opinion.
Speaker 1:I think it's a fine game. I on paper I would like the combat system of destiny more, or it needs to have some mechanic like call of duty is where the pace of combat is so high that that's now something that you can train and get better at. One of the things that I don't like about certain shooters like Helldivers or even Warframe or any of these other games that are very stiff and rigid I don't like. This is going to probably trigger a bunch of people, but, like Valorant, for example, I don't like the gameplay of that.
Speaker 4:Or CSGO we just lost all our subscribers, because that game to me is no.
Speaker 2:We have to start over. Damn it, we're going to start from scratch.
Speaker 1:That game, to me, is much more tactical in the sense of holding angles and being very quick and accurate with your aim. And that, to me, is just how much time you're willing to brute, force your way into that game To know every angle, to know what pixel to line your crosshair up so that you hit the headshot. That's not interesting to me. I want something that I can logically progress and accelerate and not just memorize positions. That's why I like the Call of Duty model, because there's an athleticism, there's a reaction speed. You could slide, cancel, you can be mobile and kit, mobile-y where you can influence your gameplay.
Speaker 3:I would argue, overwatch is very much like that as well.
Speaker 1:Overwatch is depending on which champion you play. Absolutely. So I like those level of games and with Destiny I think it's the opposite. Not much on the movement side, it's much more of how you gear and spec your character and use the abilities for it. So that's where it kind of gets interesting.
Speaker 4:Like gunplay, Because Bungie to me, Bungie, that's the one good thing that I can always rely on is it's going to feel good to shoot a gun.
Speaker 1:It never felt satisfying because everything is just sort of like a damage sponge in that game.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And you see a thousand numbers and you're like all right, I don't know, it didn't have that satisfying like head shot.
Speaker 3:You know what I think? What I think, like the like peak first-person shooter mechanics is actually Doom.
Speaker 4:See, I would agree, but I think I don't think it's peak.
Speaker 3:Well, tell us Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal both they give you that feeling you're talking about it's all reactionary, it's very fast-paced, you never stop, it's very smooth.
Speaker 1:And you feel paced, yeah, um you're never smooth animation never stop.
Speaker 3:It's very smooth and you feel, if you get good at that game, you feel like an unstoppable juggernaut of like pure anger and power. And no other game first person shooter wise has pulled that off as successfully, I think, as doom epic music yeah, it's like fucking metal music and it's you versus an army of Satan's minions, Like I think that that feels. As far as first-person shooters go, Doom Eternal feels the best to me.
Speaker 1:But I think, going back to like the you were talking about how, like, have I aged out of that or can I get interested in that For me? I think you I aged out of that or, you know, can I get interested in that For me? You think you've aged out of it. I think I've aged out of shooters. I just am not. I feel like it's just been there done that. I don't know how you can evolve gun gameplay more than what you have. I don't think you can really, that's what.
Speaker 1:I'm saying, Like what are you going to get? Better accuracy or better visuals?
Speaker 4:I mean, you don't think?
Speaker 3:Doom is peak.
Speaker 4:I think it's peak for its flavor of shooting. I think it's a flavor of shooting and I think that I think there's different flavors of shooting. I think Doom it works really well for it and I love Doom, but to me like really well for it and I love doom but to me like I don't know necessarily if it's like a good shooter or it's a good shooter, but it's like it's a different flavor, it's a more aggressive, more arcadey, you literally get health back by killing people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like you have no choice but to be aggressive.
Speaker 4:It's its own flavor and they do it really well. But to me that doesn't make it peak. I don't know if there is a peak, like I was saying with bungie, it's not that it's the peak, it's just.
Speaker 3:I know that's the one thing they do well, at least for me I guess it depends on what you're trying to accomplish, right, because that style that doom does. I don't think that they do have an online component to doom, but I don't think that that style really makes online that good.
Speaker 1:You know what, the more I think about this. What is peak gun gameplay? And I know if something cool gave me you're still in the chat Apex Legends. For me, the reason is I could never get into it. I'm sorry. The reason is there's an immense gun variety. The entire game skill cap is based around movement, which is so hard to get really good at in that game, which is I've dumped 200 hours in that game and I I am. I might have a 0.3 kd in that game and that's not even an exaggeration, because I was just terrible but that had really. But again, it it was the game mode, which is the the Battle Royale 3 versus all style gameplay that makes that game interesting. It's not the gun gameplay. So I don't know how you could.
Speaker 1:I know that there's a couple gun MMOs on the horizon. There's two of. I can't think of the name, but I know that there's two touted as coming out. Who knows about this shit? But I don't know what a gun game needs. The gameplay of itself, of zoom in and fire, I just don't. I've seen it all. I've played it my whole life. It doesn't evolve like. It's just not interesting. So maybe a game that introduces more game systems around, like supporting the game so it acts more like an mmo might be interesting, but the gameplay for me needs to have more than point and click, and that's what gun gameplay will always come down to.
Speaker 4:But so my, I would argue that you aren't growing out of shooting, you're just at a time where you don't find any interesting, because the reason I would argue that is that all games pretty much stem from like. If I had to try and think of it like, uh, for gameplay styles, we have shooters, we have platform, we have puzzle, puzzle and strategic, strategic, maybe, like, and that's like, every single game goes off of those into Falls into one of those games Into one of those.
Speaker 4:And I think shooters, they just need to do something to reinvigorate you or make the right combination.
Speaker 3:I would agree with that Because I don't think you've grown out of it.
Speaker 4:I think it's just right now the formula's gone stale. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I 100% agree with that. Like I think the Battle Royale genre saved first-person shooters because I think the whole team deathmatch thing I was done with years ago. Then Battle Royales came out and you see things like Fortnite and you're like that looks fucking fun. That's a really cool concept. We need that. We need some kind of next-step evolution.
Speaker 4:I don't know what that is, because Battle Royales are sort of already super epic um, well, and like you, look at um, for example, another genre like zelda, breath of the wild, that kind of took something that was, I mean, it wasn't dying, but it was a very stale yeah formula of like oh, it's another zelda game, you go to dungeons and then they blew it up and it's like, and I don't know, yeah, how do.
Speaker 3:I don't know how they even do that to a shooter, you know. So it's not like we have the answers on what they need to do, but I think that battle royales, like you said it, it did bring a lot of faith back in the first person not just first person shooters in general, um, but then that got really saturated and stale over the course of like a year and then I guess they tried to go to like hero shooters.
Speaker 3:Yeah, with a hero shooter like in overwatch and um, let's start with the one that failed really quickly. It launched the same time as overwatch, um uh oh god, it's made by the same people that um, oh god, was it valve that made it was it valve, or was it? Right, I don't remember there was one. There was a game that launched the exact same time as overwatch and it was almost like the same thing and it had a lot of, and it failed so quick wow I, I doubt it was right.
Speaker 1:Right, anything riot does goes gold.
Speaker 3:It seems like um I'm going to look at this Battleborn.
Speaker 1:Battleborn. I didn't even know what it was, that's right. Yeah, it was Gearbox.
Speaker 4:Gearbox.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they were. There was so much hype behind it and it looked like it was going to be really good. And then Overwatch came out and was like a better version of it and then just completely dwarfed. It was like a better version of it and then just completely, uh, dwarfed it. But battleborn and overwatch, I would argue, were like the first two, like hero shooters yeah, man it's.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that next step in evolution is, but you're absolutely right. Like I need something to get me excited about it. I need that, that new curveball, whatever that is.
Speaker 3:Um, I don't get super hyped on shooters either, but I'll still. I mean right now the only games that I I mean RPGs, of course, but the only games I can go in every time in the formula and not change at all and I'm still okay with, is fighting games.
Speaker 4:What about platformers like Mario?
Speaker 3:No, I get pretty burnt out on yeah, yeah, but like I, I just recently redid a playthrough of mk1 because they're launching an expansion in september and I forgot dude, I fucking love that game. Like world combat is so good really it's so good. And I'm not even really that good at um fighting games. Like I, I could barely beat the campaign in normal and like I, I have. I struggle with that, but I still have a lot of fun with it. And um, I'll play online, get my ass kicked, but I love fighting games and mortal kombat. Um, especially this last one, mortal kombat. One had like one of the best stories, not just in fighting games but in gaming. It's really good and people kind of sleep on that because it's a fighting game.
Speaker 3:It's not like it's known for its campaign. Yes.
Speaker 1:No, I like my high fantasy. I like my high fantasy with magic. There's magic in Mortal Kombat. There are sorcerers. I'm not saying it's not, I'm just telling you what my genre, that I like is that's. That's my genre. It's high fantasy, magic shit everywhere.
Speaker 4:Dynamic combat systems I feel like I'm pretty open to to all genres see, like I mean, if I were, I'm coming up with this on the spot. Let's make the game now. You combine FPS with magic, but not the game that they already made.
Speaker 1:Iverdum or whatever.
Speaker 4:Immortum, immortals. Whatever that one was called, they're first-person wizards. Yeah, no, we have real guns.
Speaker 1:Wizard bullet yeah. And then you Just shooting energy, plus Enhanced with magic, it yeah. And then you, you're just shooting and like a machine gun 50, 50 50 dylan.
Speaker 3:That game sounds terrible. Immortals of avernum avernum it was god came out.
Speaker 4:You guys remember what I'm talking about it was exactly that. It was like you were you shot.
Speaker 3:That was like um harry potter and the deathly part two the game it was a third-person shooter.
Speaker 1:Fps. Magic is just Skyrim. Something Cool Gaming says.
Speaker 3:It was worse, in Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, part 2, it's a third-person shooter. And so your wand? It literally shoots bullets.
Speaker 1:What are they? Just mod A like a shooter.
Speaker 3:No, that was not the game.
Speaker 4:Yeah probably but you're like expelliarmus, yeah, and you're like literally shooting from behind, fucking recoil, like, and that's what I'm picturing, yeah I will say um, there is a game that I think came out, that it's I guess you could classify it as a first person shooter that I really like the idea and I want them to do more of, because it took the idea of. Battle for Bikini Bottom. It took that idea of Immortals, of Avernum or whatever that game is called, where it's like first person magic.
Speaker 4:Oh boy what's it called? It's in tokyo well, anyways kyle, can you look it up while I try to explain it. What's it called?
Speaker 3:it's mortals of avernum.
Speaker 4:No, it's uh, ghost ghostwire, tokyo ghostwire, oh yeah, yeah, I really enjoyed that and I thought that one was different enough of like it wasn't just a straight up like I had machine guns for hands. It felt like I was casting actual spells, like because you'd like you'd hold to charge and like, um, you had this way, this water spell that would like slice, and then he had like a fire spell that was almost like um, uh, like it was like a, like a rocket launcher obviously, but you'd fire it and you'd like had to, you had to switch between them and you could like it. I don't know, it worked for me a little bit better than immortals of avernum and I I think it is a good idea. I think it needs to be worked on and done right. Right, I think that would be really cool, because magic is cool and if you could somehow Magic is cool.
Speaker 1:Magic is cool, warping is cool.
Speaker 4:Yeah, join us, but if you could turn that first-person shooter somehow and not make it like I have machine guns for hands. I think you could make it work.
Speaker 1:No, I don't know. I don't know if I.
Speaker 3:Immortals of Avion.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's first-person games that I don't like.
Speaker 4:You don't like first-person games. What about hack and?
Speaker 1:slash. There's definitely games that I I'm not going to say I hate all first-person games because I have something against it, but I think I just If I'm not going to say I hate all first-person games because I have something against it, but I think I just If I'm going to have my fantasy game that I want. I don't want to fucking see hands casting spells all day long. I want to see my character. I want to be able to position.
Speaker 4:It changes the gameplay.
Speaker 1:Now I have this view of, like I'm controlling the environment. No, I mean, definitely I'm looking through that lens, for sure, but I'm controlling, like, my situation where I stand, like the combat, is way more dynamic and interesting than when my field of view is this Because I got half my screen for waving hands, like I don't.
Speaker 3:I want to be able to get in in the environment so I'm not a huge fan of first-person games either, um, unless it's like, I'll forgive it if the game is really good and the story's really good, um, but I remember way back when cyberpunk was still in development, when they announced it was going to be a first-person game, I remember thinking, like man, like I was hoping it was gonna be third person, um, and then I ended up, you know, loving cyberpunk. But, uh, I'm kind of in the same boat. Like I, I'll forgive first person if, like, the game is good and the story's good, the campaign's good, but it's not my primary preference in gaming daniel says what about vr?
Speaker 3:I have no experience in VR gaming.
Speaker 4:I think it still needs a few years of like.
Speaker 1:I don't think it'll ever get there, no, Never. I'm kind of turning on it. I think VR is really cool. I just I don't. I just don't see it really playing out Like you can have an incredible experience with VR and it could be totally unique, but I think once you have it's like 3D movies, Like wow, that's really cool. I'd rather just see it on a regular screen now, Like it's undoubtedly if you're watching the same content. 3d is more interactive, right? Undoubtedly, but we still choose 2d movies, right?
Speaker 3:unless vr kind of what vr is truly puts you into the universe. I don't think it's ever gonna be comes like ready player one if it becomes like ready player one, then it's going to be better.
Speaker 1:I don't want to have to put on a whole helmet and sensors and have this whole crazy setup and standing up. I want to sit in my chair, but if you put a helmet on and you are truly in that world, like sensory Like full body sensors.
Speaker 3:It's indistinguishable from the real world. That's the level I need VR to be before I like consider.
Speaker 1:But even then, what you'll do is you'll get into that and then you will then play yourself. Who then grabs a controller and plays the game.
Speaker 3:I would love like if they put me into Skyrim's universe, you're a third person to you, right or Cyberpunk? Or Elden Ring. Imagine how terrifying Elden Ring would be in that world. You have all the energy and stamina of the character in the game so you can level up, so you feel like I feel so good right now.
Speaker 4:Imagine any one of those games, how the potential of if it fully put you in the game you could like, in cyberpunk for example, you could. You could walk up to somebody, an enemy, with the gun behind your back, you like, you could actually sneak it, just you know yeah, but all of the examples that we're talking about is cool.
Speaker 1:once you're taught, yes, it is Then immediately it wears off.
Speaker 4:If I'm in the game.
Speaker 1:No, it's not cool anymore If I'm in the game.
Speaker 3:No, it's not cool anymore. It'll wear off.
Speaker 1:It won't. It'll fucking wear off, I guarantee it. You'll have to spend $10,000 to have that experience.
Speaker 3:I think we will never experience this in our lifetimes.
Speaker 4:To verify the madness of what you just I don't think we're gonna get. I don't think you understand the level we're talking of, like you're in the game, like it probably wires into your brain and what the fuck?
Speaker 1:okay, now we're getting to that level. Okay, you are in the reality universe. Your reality has changed it.
Speaker 3:It's the Matrix, that's what we're talking about, and when you're like, the novelty will wear off. No, it's like the Matrix.
Speaker 1:I still think the novelty will wear off, even in a Matrix situation.
Speaker 3:If you could experience flying like Superman, that would wear off.
Speaker 1:I can go to Disneyland right now and go to their flying simulator thing. No.
Speaker 3:There's no technology that would allow you to actually fly the simulators. I'm talking like you put on this helmet and you have the powers of Superman. That's what I'm Like. It's not a game. It's indistinguishable from, and you're like I honestly think it means nothing. A game. It's indistinguishable from, and you're like I honestly think it means nothing to me.
Speaker 1:I honestly think the novelty would wear off.
Speaker 3:I'd rather play Guild Wars 1.
Speaker 1:I honestly think the novelty will wear off. It'll be cool. It's not a novelty anymore. It's not.
Speaker 3:It's reality.
Speaker 1:You're not grasping. You just can go and fucking Superman. You're destroying.
Speaker 4:And it's indistinguishable from reality. You would be sitting in the chair wearing the helmet, like this but you are.
Speaker 3:It is indistinguishable from like other than the fact that you know it's not real, but it's indistinguishable from this moment we're having here. This is simulated.
Speaker 1:But you're just living out fantasies and you're living out the game. Yeah, at that point, if we're at that point in society, you're just living out your life.
Speaker 3:That's why I said we will never in our lifetimes we're not going to get to that point, to ever see this.
Speaker 1:I think if we ever got to that point, our default to just slam our brain with dopamine.
Speaker 3:We would just be dopamine. Everybody would be in this universe and he'd be like well, I'd rather play Guild Wars.
Speaker 4:Who's still online? Boys we're logging in.
Speaker 1:We're good to go man, I don't know man.
Speaker 3:Imagine if it was Guild Wars, the game, and you got put into that universe and you were your character and it was indistinguishable from the reality.
Speaker 1:I think that would be a lesser experience than actually playing the game. I don't want to fucking run around or even have the effort because running around thinking about moving.
Speaker 3:It's not now the game, because you have all the skills and ability, like if your character has unlimited stamina, then you could just run forever. It's not like you. Your human limitations are in this world.
Speaker 4:You go in as that character. I think Billy likes the gamified aspect.
Speaker 1:That would make it real, so I would go.
Speaker 4:It's not like chess.
Speaker 1:It's a novelty.
Speaker 4:I would jack in and then I would sit at my computer and play my game it's not like a like chess, where it's like you are just built different you are just wired I know that's the quote like imagine how cool kyle like cyberpunk, yeah being in that world and you could just pop out the gun like imagine play, and then you get shot and you feel it no, oh, okay, so now it's reality, but not reality.
Speaker 3:Well, it's a game. You want to die. It's a game. The battle feels real and you're in it, but then when you get shot, you get a game over.
Speaker 1:But how would it feel real if you didn't feel? Pain.
Speaker 3:You get a game over.
Speaker 4:I mean, I'm sure there'll be people that want it that way, but I wouldn't want it.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't want it when you but like to feel the sensation of feeling real. You would want to feel that power emanating from your hands. You would want to feel that your fist punching someone in the face yeah, but you don't want to feel.
Speaker 4:But now you're not feeling pain. That why you there'd be a setting called like pain sensors.
Speaker 2:You turn it off unless you're this is the world you want to live in. No, not live in no.
Speaker 3:Play a couple hours a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if we're at this? There's no way. There's no way. If we were at that level of civilization where that would be like I'm going to go jack in and play, no, no, you would live out your life in that fantasy world.
Speaker 4:A hundred percent, because reality would suck, see, so it wouldn't become a novelty.
Speaker 3:Which is why, when you were saying it would wear off after like 30 minutes, I didn't think you were grasping what we were talking about?
Speaker 1:I just like. I mean, you guys are literally pitching the movie the Matrix. Nobody in that universe was happy man.
Speaker 4:But that's controlled by the robots.
Speaker 1:I can't with you, fucking guys.
Speaker 3:I don't even know why You're the one that's on the wrong side of this right now. Apparently so, apparently.
Speaker 1:We want to fucking submit our lives away to a fucking simulation.
Speaker 3:If he was playing Second Life, he'd create his character working. Yeah, he's a Dwight Schrute.
Speaker 1:Jesus Christ Chad. What do you think? Whose side are you on? Are you on the side of wrong or right?
Speaker 3:Just kidding. Hey, we're debating something that will never happen in our lifetimes.
Speaker 1:I watched the movie the Matrix. Nobody enjoyed themselves.
Speaker 4:Everybody seemed pretty fucking miserable. I don't know. Neo felt pretty happy when he was learning Kung Fu. Yeah, he didn't learn Kung Fu, he downloaded a fucking.
Speaker 3:EXE, yeah. And then he was like whoa, Did you see the third one? He brought his powers into the real world.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:All science went out the window, yeah.
Speaker 1:He was Jesus Because it was a simulation within the simulation he was the chosen one, that's right oh man.
Speaker 3:You know, the first matrix film, uh, was on neil degrasse tyson's list of best sci-fi films of all time, and then the second and third one were on his list of worst sci-fi films of all time. Oh shit, same with back to the future, even though I liked all three.
Speaker 4:The first one was on his and then this I not that I'm like a whole another, like that would be a side tangent we're not gonna go down the rabbit hole tonight, but not that.
Speaker 3:Like you know, what neil degrasse tyson says is law. When it comes to film he's god. But it is interesting that from that perspective, how quickly the Matrix films went from sci-fi to fantasy, like over the course of one film pretty much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that goes to our earlier conversation of, like the, did the Matrix really even need a sequel, the way that it ended?
Speaker 3:No, it didn't it didn't right, it was self-contained.
Speaker 4:It was cool.
Speaker 1:The whole concept was cool and it closed itself off off like red or blue and like the choice of reality or sim, like that was kind of a cool thing. And then short-term gains right, they looked they're trying earlier conversation they made short-term milked all that money and you know. But because it wasn't a game, matrix one is all like. Matrix is always going to be spoken about very highly do you think, uh, it would be?
Speaker 3:do you think its success was attributed specifically to, like keanu reeves? Do you think it would have been as successful if uh will smith who? Was actually the first choice to play the character and he turned it down.
Speaker 4:I think it would have.
Speaker 3:Do you think it would have? I feel like Will Smith would have definitely put a Wild Wild West flair on it and it wouldn't have been as good.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 3:Think about his character in Men in Black, his character in Wild Wild West. Those are the films he was doing at that time.
Speaker 1:There was like a stoicism with Keanu Reeves.
Speaker 3:I think Keanu Reeves is the perfect kind of dry, emotionless actor that fit in that role that. I don't know if Will Smith would have done it as well.
Speaker 4:Look at Pursuit of.
Speaker 3:Happiness he wasn't doing it, I know, but like Wild Wild West.
Speaker 4:Men in Black. That's what the characters are written. As that wasn't like him ad-libbing the whole thing no, I don't.
Speaker 3:I didn't say he's no, I'm just saying I'm saying that at that time he will. Smith would have been like you know what's really cool, the quirky guy that give a shit about anything but he's also funny and he gets the girl like I feel like he would have played it like that. I don't like he would have played it like that. I don't think he would have played it like the Pursuit of Happiness.
Speaker 1:I think honestly, I think the story transcends any one actor in that film, Because that was a star-studded cast.
Speaker 3:I'm just bringing up that idea. I don't know one way or the other. I think Will Smith definitely has the capability. You better.
Speaker 1:I'm so pissed. I think he probably would have nailed the role.
Speaker 4:Since when are you such a Will Smith defender?
Speaker 1:I hate him, but it's fine. I think he's had fucking some bangers. I think he would have had his own flavor to the character, for sure, but I think the Matrix especially one is a story. It's more about the story than there's any of the actors and, I think, the question that the audiences pose with I think it still would have had the same cultural impact.
Speaker 3:Will Smith he famously turned down the Matrix because when the Wachowskis pitched it to him they did a horrible pitch and the story didn't make any sense to him and he's like I'm not getting involved in that. And then it came out and he watched it and he said he was like shit, I should have been in that movie. That's kind of like Matt Damon Uh, he has uh avatar with avatar. He lost out on the most money ever for any actor ever. They offered him. Um God, he lost out on the most money ever for any actor ever. They offered him. God, what was it? 10%, 10% of the revenue. Had he have said yes to film?
Speaker 3:And that would have been hundreds of millions of dollars he would have got for being in it.
Speaker 1:I wonder why James Cameron felt the need to offer that.
Speaker 3:To Matt Damon yeah, it. I wonder why james cameron felt the need to offer that to matt damon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not like he was an unestablished movie maker I mean, that's what I'm saying like he did, like titanic, the biggest film of all time before that you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like if avid, let's say avatar didn't do that crazy well, like let's just, it'd still be a 500 million dollar grossing film. You know what I mean? Like still james fucking cameron. And still like, hyped for years as this spectacle, it would have still got. Maybe I have no doubt in my mind it would have made over five. Even if the movie sucked, it would have made 500 million dollars.
Speaker 3:I think sometimes that's still 50 when these writers and creators have a certain person in mind when they, when they do, they get stuck.
Speaker 3:They get so dialed in that like this has to be the person that. I think that's probably what it was. And then, ultimately, when he was like all right, not going to work, let's find somebody else. And they ended up casting at the time some unknown dude who ended up making a bunch of movies after that, but at the time Sam Worthington wasn't like in anything before that was he in terminator at that point or not yet?
Speaker 3:so they had filmed. They finished filming avatar in like 2004, so he wasn't in anything yet and then it took. It came out in 2009. It took from 2004 to like the end of 2008 just to finish all of the post-production CG work and everything it filmed for a couple years in the early 2000s, which is crazy. So imagine being in that movie and starring in it, filming it at the same time as Lord of the Rings. Yeah, and then for five years after you're done filming, just telling everybody just wait.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be in this movie. It's going to be epic. You'll see James Cameron. Are'm going to be in this movie, it's going to be epic, You'll see James Cameron Like.
Speaker 3:Are you going to be in this film, though? Like Crazy Sam, he had a nickname in his pub. Are?
Speaker 1:you going to be. I bet the editors hated James Cameron because of how like I've seen behind-the-scenes shit on the Titanic. Yeah. And how much effort went into creating how the boat broke apart and the level of science and the weight distribution. He had this vision the whole time of what it would look like and he brought in all these scientists. And it had nothing to do with the film, it was just nailing the ship and how it broke apart and the way it separated it is fantastically amazing.
Speaker 3:My main problem with Titanic is is um the acting. The acting, leonardo caprio, is the worst actor. I swear he can't act no, uh, obviously that's not true at all. But my main problem with titanic is it was literally over the course of like a day, how quickly, like you know, and she took his name and everything like. How quickly these people love the love is a beautiful love story, but it like in real life. It doesn't happen that quick. All right, you don't just like?
Speaker 4:she was.
Speaker 3:It does to me one day he could have got on that door at the end. Don't tell me there wasn't enough room for him rose was like it's like oh man, chilly, get over. He gets off because he's angry at her nagging dies if only he knew about the wim hof method. No, you could have just ice manned it through you know, and also that movie makes the ship seem a lot bigger than it actually was Like if you compare Titanic. Obviously there's over 100.
Speaker 3:There's modern ships there's over 100 years ago. So obviously. But if you compare the Titanic to some of these Royal Super Cruise ships from Royal Caribbean, like it literally is, it's dwarfed. It looks so tiny compared to what we have now it looks like the tugboat that pulls it to sea. That was a weird tangent for me to go on, you guys just reminded me the tangent, reminded me.
Speaker 4:There was this person that was telling me this conspiracy theory about the Titanic that it was crashed on purpose. Why? What purpose there was Big, if true Big. What purpose there was Big, if true, there was, like, important people on it that were put on it by some other important person, people who could afford it, nobody that important For competition.
Speaker 1:Jack's ticket.
Speaker 4:The guy who Jack wins the ticket from was the guy who set it up.
Speaker 3:Okay, he's not a real person, so Titanic happened, but Jack is a fictional character.
Speaker 4:Are you?
Speaker 3:sure.
Speaker 4:I'm positive. Was James Cameron not there, did he know?
Speaker 3:something Did James Cameron know something? Some would say His great-grandfather. Actually, it'd just feel like his grandfather.
Speaker 1:So some already ridiculously wealthy person put this idea together to build the largest, safest cruise ship ever, invite a bunch of rich people on it, not good on it, and then crash it, just so he could potentially win over their business. That seems pretty elaborate, which I mean we're talking about the days where it was pretty much illegal to go out and have a pistol battle with people in the middle of the fucking street. Duels were illegal.
Speaker 3:We're in a duel in the middle of the street and it's straight up illegal. Never mind that the Titanic actually was designed and built extremely well. It was purely human error that caused this Human error hubris yep.
Speaker 4:If that was the theory.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to look it up now. There's a million.
Speaker 3:There are probably better ways that you can get rich people. You can get rich people in one building and shoot it up or bomb it, rather than building a cruise ship Billion dollar cruise ship. Making them get on it sailing from it's a 10-year plan.
Speaker 1:All the while you finally build it and the guy you're trying to take down is afraid of boats and he never gets on it. Yeah at first place. You're like fuck, damn it.
Speaker 3:The plan is foolproof. And then this is all like the precursor Titanic happened in 1911 or 12. And this is all the precursor to World War I. Jp Morgan planned the disaster to kill his rivals.
Speaker 3:According to this theory, according to this theory, millionaire banker JP Morgan planned the Titanic disaster to kill off rival millionaires Jacob Astor, isidore Strauss and Benjamin Guggenheim, who all perished aboard. So JP Morgan funded the Titanic to kill his three rivals. He designed a ship, he had it built. Over the course of what? Multiple years? Got it crewed, got the captain willing to kill himself, killed hundreds and hundreds of people, specifically to kill three men rather than just killing them.
Speaker 1:After 20 years, after JP Morgan single-handedly bailed out the entire us government. So he's already world renowned at the top of everything and he needed to do this to take him down. That's right.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna have a hard time believing this is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1:Heard and with that dylan, where can people find us?
Speaker 4:well, if jp morgan doesn't get to us jp morgan's people give us a call.
Speaker 1:Let us know on our next, did you?
Speaker 4:do this on our next cruise. Yeah, uh, they can find us on youtube, instagram, spotify, any major podcast listening platform, twitter, as well as Twitter. Which he said. X with a whisper you can find us on.
Speaker 1:X, I don't.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 1:X Like Family Feud. You know, you ever seen Family Feud when the other family's like you're gonna get it wrong boy.
Speaker 4:Let's move on. Moving on, you can watch us every tuesday right here on youtube, where hopefully you're watching us right now. We stream at 7 pm, pacific time. Come join us, chat with us. Um, it's a fun time and, uh, we were three silly guys, you know just having a good time, all right having a good time. What's the Saturday life? Two crazy guys, two wild guys.
Speaker 1:Or three wild guys. Good kitty, you get the dub.