We pulled this episode directly from our livestream over on YouTube. Come check us out!
The following description was wrong A.I.
Could the demise of Xbox console exclusives signal the end of an era for gamers and the industry? Join the fray as we dissect Microsoft's paradigm shift, chewing over what it means when the tether to traditional console loyalty is severed by the availability of games across platforms. We animate the debate with perspectives on recent Xbox title launches and their influence on this strategic pivot, all while tapping into the collective unease of Xbox enthusiasts mourning the loss of exclusivity.
Prepare to navigate the tangled web of game pricing and its impact on your wallet and gaming experience. We tear into the escalating costs of triple and "quadruple A" titles, scrutinizing the creeping standardization of a $70 price tag—a move that could cement itself in the industry. As we wrestle with the ethics and strategies behind monetization, from free-to-play successes to the contentious in-game purchases in paid titles, we expose the delicate equilibrium between profit for developers and quality for players. The conversation turns to the rich narrative realms of MMOs, contemplating how a blockbuster like Mass Effect could unfold in an MMO landscape without sacrificing its storytelling prowess.
Rounding out our gaming odyssey, we cast our critical eye over the mechanics and allure of different genres. Feel the contrast between the visceral control in shooters against the calculated strategies in MMOs, and join us as we muse on whether franchises like Mass Effect can transcend their single-player roots to conquer the MMO universe. Whether you're a fervent MMO aficionado or yearn for the agency of a shooter, this episode is a deep exploration of gameplay styles, the balance of narrative and action, and how they shape our virtual escapades.
If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast
We pulled this episode directly from our livestream over on YouTube. Come check us out!
The following description was wrong A.I.
Could the demise of Xbox console exclusives signal the end of an era for gamers and the industry? Join the fray as we dissect Microsoft's paradigm shift, chewing over what it means when the tether to traditional console loyalty is severed by the availability of games across platforms. We animate the debate with perspectives on recent Xbox title launches and their influence on this strategic pivot, all while tapping into the collective unease of Xbox enthusiasts mourning the loss of exclusivity.
Prepare to navigate the tangled web of game pricing and its impact on your wallet and gaming experience. We tear into the escalating costs of triple and "quadruple A" titles, scrutinizing the creeping standardization of a $70 price tag—a move that could cement itself in the industry. As we wrestle with the ethics and strategies behind monetization, from free-to-play successes to the contentious in-game purchases in paid titles, we expose the delicate equilibrium between profit for developers and quality for players. The conversation turns to the rich narrative realms of MMOs, contemplating how a blockbuster like Mass Effect could unfold in an MMO landscape without sacrificing its storytelling prowess.
Rounding out our gaming odyssey, we cast our critical eye over the mechanics and allure of different genres. Feel the contrast between the visceral control in shooters against the calculated strategies in MMOs, and join us as we muse on whether franchises like Mass Effect can transcend their single-player roots to conquer the MMO universe. Whether you're a fervent MMO aficionado or yearn for the agency of a shooter, this episode is a deep exploration of gameplay styles, the balance of narrative and action, and how they shape our virtual escapades.
If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast
and here we go, we are live, gentlemen.
Speaker 2:What's up? Hello, so the ball is over.
Speaker 1:It is now a new, fresh week. Our year can officially.
Speaker 3:Well, fresh week was yesterday. You're right, it's a fresh week.
Speaker 1:for our viewers it's our fresh week.
Speaker 2:Because our week operates off of Tuesday.
Speaker 1:You're right, I don't feel like the week can start until I see you the week doesn't start until this podcast hit starts streaming.
Speaker 3:It's all just made up, anyways, right.
Speaker 1:What is a second?
Speaker 3:The sun rises and sets. That's the only thing we should know.
Speaker 1:Dude, have you ever done any investigation into what defines time Like? What is a second, what is one second? Have you ever seen what?
Speaker 3:And the only way to answer that is one second is one second.
Speaker 1:No, well, exactly, how did we define? Well, how is one second defined? And it's like nine trillion rotations of the electron of the beryllium atom or something like, or cesium, or something, I forget what. Periodic table development is.
Speaker 2:Isn't it the decay of like a?
Speaker 1:No, I'm pretty sure it's an electron. How many times it's defined as explicitly as, like nine trillion something spins on an electron atom, an electron of an atom, and I don't know what atom it is.
Speaker 3:That's wild, it is wild, it's wild. I mean that sounded like I was saying in a way that was like shut up, that's not how I meant it, like no, that really is insane that they would.
Speaker 1:I think he was trying to move on. I think he was, no, actually.
Speaker 3:I was going to stay on the same topic.
Speaker 1:But at time is an illusion. You're absolutely right. And here we are. We got a fresh new week. The week starts now. Are we doing boys? We feeling good. Vibes are high, feeling good. I got a fist bump from Kyle, so he's feeling good.
Speaker 2:He actually is awake.
Speaker 1:He's not trying to tank it.
Speaker 3:I took a nice long nap. I worked today Nice.
Speaker 1:That's a productive day.
Speaker 3:I was on lunch. Let me clarify in case somebody's watching Long lunch it was an extra long lunch.
Speaker 1:The collars are popped, we're looking good, we're feeling good.
Speaker 3:Tonight we have a couple of topics to dive into.
Speaker 1:The first one is this controversy that's been spinning up and I don't think it's really a controversy, I think it's a bunch of cry fanboys and I know we have some Xbox gamers in the chat, something cool gaming. In particular, it was a lifelong Xbox fanboy, but Microsoft who kind of runs the show at Xbox.
Speaker 3:They've been known to run Xbox, if you heard of them they're only the most valued.
Speaker 1:They actually topped Apple for the most valuable company in the world. Now, without the Blizzard acquisition went through, they are no longer doing console exclusives, so they're going to sort of balance between the console and their PC market. So nothing will be exclusive to their platforms. To me as a consumer of video games and not a shill of any platform, any one platform I was elated by this. I was like oh cool.
Speaker 3:Isn't this a good thing? This is a good thing, right? Is this what we should be writing towards?
Speaker 1:Yes, right, you would think that this game is now being introduced to more platforms. If you enjoy games, you don't have to go through the gatekeeping of buying a console or whatever specific product to own that. I like seeing this. This is generally a good thing. There was a response that I didn't even know these people existed. I did not know these people existed and I saw videos of dudes singing to their consoles. What Dudes literally crying. I don't think it was even fake. It was like a legitimate love story that they wrote to their consoles and the whole idea was if exclusives don't exist anymore, then nobody will buy Xbox. Nobody will buy the Xbox anymore.
Speaker 3:OK, what's wrong with your system then? Exactly, if that's the only reason you buy it.
Speaker 1:Exactly. They had fallen so deep in love with this one singular product and were completely. I didn't know these people existed. I did not know these people. I'm sure they exist for the Sony side, like the PS5 side.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I know they exist for the Switch, but I did not realize that there was this heart of simping going on for products like this. It was mind-blowing to see. This guy wrote a three-minute love story song and actually sung it, just ripped it and it was like, so you watched my video. It was very uncomfortable to watch.
Speaker 2:Wow, and I don't get it. That's their new model going forward. Pc does that.
Speaker 3:They've always done that. I mean, PC doesn't care whether or not it's PC exclusive or not. They're just at the mercy of developers. Yep, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean Xbox has been kind of going that way, so it's been in the cards. Because we've seen with game passes on PC, yeah, I don't even know if we like. And what are the Xbox exclusives right?
Speaker 1:now let's talk about that Halo Infinite. Yeah, redfall, I looked at a Steam chart Starfield right.
Speaker 2:I looked at it.
Speaker 1:I looked at a Steam chart of how many people are playing Redfall. It was 26. Nice.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's about 25 more than I thought.
Speaker 1:Starfield. I mean, these were bad flops. That was a bad year for them dude, you know why?
Speaker 2:I think they had a lot of bad years, dude, that's bad.
Speaker 3:Anybody who has been following the lore on this should have seen this coming, because Xbox even said, before Starfield launched, they were speculating that they'd have to do major overhauls to their approach to gaming if Starfield wasn't a success. They said that, and so Starfield wasn't the success that they hoped it would be, and therefore changes are being made and this is like what it was. What did they think was going to happen? What did the fans think that they meant by that? Like we're going to double down? That doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1:And I feel like a lot of these AAA or even quadruple now that we got Skull and Bones didn't know that that was a thing. These studios, I feel like they're sort of homogenizing the way that they deploy these things, where they're not only trying to target the console, they're trying to target where people are and people are on their phones, and so you're seeing a lot of mobile games launching, as also mobile games. You definitely see that in the MMO market and then you see these fan bases almost sort of begging them to produce this content. To me I only see I get that there's benefits to developing on a console because the hardware is known, so it's probably easier to develop for just the one platform, because the PC is sort of a lot of things.
Speaker 1:But, I also don't think it's impossible to do that. That's been evident by the steam, like Power World and all these other games that have CSGO and freaking PubG, like insanely successful video games that you can launch on PC. Yeah, it might be a little more difficult, but regardless, to me, a console, all of it, it's still computer hardware. At the end of the day it's still a computer. It's just organized and architected in a very specific way. So I just I think this is ultimately a good thing and good news and to see the reaction, it was all over my feet. I couldn't get away from it. Like just people moaning and groaning and yelling at the top of their lungs about how stupid people are. They don't see the risk here that PlayStation is going to be running uncontested.
Speaker 3:I come to think of it and I just kind of blew this off as just a typical redditor. I didn't think about it too much, but I did see a post that said it was like it was. This is maybe not an exact quote, but it said how the socialization of, or how the how the socialism aspect of gaming is ruining the market. Socialism. And they were, yeah, and they were like likening this to socialism in the gaming world. I was like what the hell?
Speaker 2:And I didn't think of it much, I just like moved on. Yeah, socialism.
Speaker 1:That guy sounds like an onion. Yeah, I was like this is you can have him on the podcast.
Speaker 3:This was a this was socialized gaming is what they they were trying to, that was their argument. That doesn't make much sense to me while they're trying to spin that.
Speaker 2:But I didn't even like comprehend, yeah.
Speaker 1:Gaming is such a weird like the people who interact with games. It's such a weird market it really is. I don't know of another product that people get to actually like interact with, build with, fall in love with. You know it's. It's different than me traditional media consumption right Home building. Thing you can build. Yeah, but like you don't get to live in every home you build. Yeah, I'm in home building, so basically a gamer, I know.
Speaker 3:The thrilling highs and the plummeting lows of falling in love with a product.
Speaker 1:That's yeah, But-.
Speaker 3:We've talked about this before on the podcast, that entertainment media like movies and gaming, but really specifically gaming, is unique on a lot of fronts.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like the way they're priced, the way they're developed, like it's just you don't have that in other markets, it's just so. Overall, I think that this is for me I think we're all in this agreements that this is not anything to really be worried about.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I mean, even if Xboxes stop existing, then okay, I mean I don't, they're sold at a loss anyway.
Speaker 1:To get people into, like it's a weird product anyway, I don't know. Tell that to.
Speaker 3:Sega. I've never recovered from when they went under. The Dreamcast was supposed to be just that, a dream. What happened? But?
Speaker 1:it cast me away.
Speaker 2:It cast me away.
Speaker 1:Speaking of excellent development Skull and Bones quadruple A game.
Speaker 3:So what's the joke on that quadruple? A?
Speaker 2:The CEO of Ubisoft. The CEO, when talked about people were asking me like do you think this is justified to have a $70 price point? He said, yes, this game is going to be amazing. It's going to be a complete game Quadruple. A it's a quadruple A game. He said that.
Speaker 3:Like, not as a joke. Unironically, he's calling it a quadruple A game.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he said I think that justifies that price point.
Speaker 1:The only game that could say that and I would be like yes, is GTA 6. Based on the level of fucking effort and groundbreaking stuff that they've had to implement and put into that engine and that world, then maybe I'd be like, okay, sure, we can give it a new class and say that some games get triple A too easily.
Speaker 2:but triple A just means the amount of money that they're charging.
Speaker 1:We don't even know, it's just institutional.
Speaker 3:And there's no double A games, it's just indie. It's indie or triple A. Why does that go like? Straight to?
Speaker 2:it, but it's like because you can't tell me that like God of War on PS5 is a triple A game, just like Starfield is, I feel like that's not comparable Maybe the classes need to be addressed.
Speaker 3:Maybe they all need to be reorganized and changed. That's such a we talked. I know we've talked about this on the podcast before. But that is the definition is a high budget, high profile games that are typically produced and distributed by large, well-known publishers.
Speaker 1:The fuck is that so quadruple A must mean dog shit.
Speaker 2:It's just different.
Speaker 1:Is that what?
Speaker 2:we all agree it's a dog shit game that's developed by a large, well-known publisher.
Speaker 3:You should never have to pay $70 for any game and $70 for school and bones. There are games that I undoubtedly would buy for $70, but I really hate the idea that that's going to be the new standard.
Speaker 1:If they make money on this.
Speaker 3:They're never going back.
Speaker 2:No, especially $70. I guess finish your thought, because I want to comment on that I was going to say $70 for a game like school and bones. I want to know if I'm spending $70, it better be a full functioning non-microtransaction like a full game, and I know school and bones has fucking live service bullshit all through it.
Speaker 1:Think of the battle. Pass dude, yeah, the battle pass for your pirate ship that you can't.
Speaker 2:You can put a decal inside your ship, man. Sick.
Speaker 1:You can have your own playlist when you ride around. You can go to the Ubisoft website.
Speaker 3:Design a logo and then put that logo on your ship in the game Sick $5.99.
Speaker 1:No no, no, that one you can't customize the colors, but you can do the custom logo. The $10 one, you can do the colors.
Speaker 2:And you have to buy it with in-game currency. They only sell it at $15 increments.
Speaker 1:And it costs $13.
Speaker 3:For $5.99. You can only download black and white.
Speaker 1:Fawn's is so sad because it's actually true. I sent you guys this week of the portals on Diablo 4. Yeah, the color $30 to change the color of the fucking portal in Diablo 4. Is.
Speaker 2:Diablo 4 a quadruple A game.
Speaker 1:It might even be a sex tuple.
Speaker 3:We're skipping $5. They go straight to $6.
Speaker 1:They do it because they can get it. I mean, if you played a lot of Diablo 4, it might be worth it.
Speaker 2:It'd be something kind of different.
Speaker 1:$30 for a portal color. Think about the people who grind that game. Still. They have hundreds of hours into it. They might get enjoyment out of it. I'm not knocking the developers do it because there's people who buy it If they have a way to make money. I'm not discouraging games from making money. But you said something interesting. You said you don't think games ever should be $70. Are you saying that you think they should be? I guess? What price point do you think games should come out? Do you think live service games should inherently be cheaper than games that are just like an Elven ring type game If it's a live service game.
Speaker 3:I think that they should operate on a free to play model for sure. I'm very firm in that belief. Most live service games are going that way. They'll make up their money in whatever other way, then I think that every other game if it's not a live service game, you really should never pay more than $60 for a game. You can give options. It's different versions of said game. As a consumer, just make it aware of what the difference is between each version. I think there should always be a base level of a minimum of $60. The base shouldn't be $70. You can make your money back in other ways. I also like in it too, where, if I get $1 an hour, then I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3:If I can get $1 an hour, then I'm more than comfortable spending more on $60.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that that shouldn't be the industry's expectation. I put like 250 hours into Diablo 4 and I bought the ultimate edition for $100. I definitely value my time at about $1 an hour in terms of video games.
Speaker 3:If I can get at least that, regardless of the game, I'll be happy Now your reflection on the game of.
Speaker 1:Whether or not it was a positive or bad experience doesn't matter. You got your value worth. You might not have enjoyed it that much. Do you like it to a price, or do you think $70 is too much?
Speaker 2:I think $70, it has to be a quality game. We can't get any more pieces of garbage, broken releases, if it's going to be $70. In my opinion, sony, they're just the ones I can think of right now that come out as complete games God of War, ghost of Tsushima, those I would be fine being $70, because it works when you get it, you plug it in, you play. There's maybe a little bug that they just fixed, but it's little. Versus, cyberpunk, anthem, those games, redfall those should never be $70. If I'm spending that much, then I better have a guarantee that it's not going to be a lie.
Speaker 3:Developers are getting way too comfortable with the fact that they are being allowed to release unfinished games and fix them after. That was never a thing up until maybe 10 years ago, and that's me being generous. If you released an unfinished game first off back in the day, you couldn't do that because it would never get fixed. There's no such thing as patching a game after release. It just was what it was. It shipped, but then all of a sudden, I don't know, somewhere in the 2010s, there was this dynamic where they realized that they could do that. They could release an unfinished game and then patch it in and fix it after launch. People let them get away with it for too long and now they're just comfortable doing that. I do think there's a shift. Now. It's going back to gamers being less tolerant of that, but they put up with that for so long that developers are still doing it.
Speaker 2:The only one I'm trying to think. What was the first game? There's gotta be.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about Kyle's point because I think that that's very well said, because I remember, coming from PC world I don't know how much this actually happened in the console world, but in the PC world I remember beta tests actually being a beta test when you actually would test the game and test the functionality. People went into it and were like, yeah, sure they were judging the content. For the most part it was like the game was ready.
Speaker 3:It was testing the servers Completely until you were testing capacity.
Speaker 1:I remember in Guild Wars 2 explicitly there was an event that they put on. They were like we want you to press every button you have, we want you to crash it.
Speaker 3:When server slam, we need to actually mean that.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what it was. It was called a server slam. They were like stack as tightly as you can on this. It was a white rabbit and it was the tankiest rabbit you've ever seen in your life. It was just the entire server just dumping on this rabbit as pressing as many buttons as you could to break the server. It was so fun and it was buggy. It was because people were having fun. They were like that's what you were there to do. You were there to test their capacity To me.
Speaker 1:I don't liken it to a price. I think it should be whatever it is. I honestly think GTA 6 is probably going to come out at the base game. It might be $100. I think we're going to start seeing developers really push it. I don't really care about the price. What I care about is gamers using information appropriately. I feel like we're really bad at spending money way too quickly with pre-orders or buying a game and then bitching about how bad it is. Use the advantage and the information at your hand. There's so many reviewers out there and content creators that will try that game. Wait one day to play that game and you won't regret your purchase.
Speaker 2:Especially now. You can kind of read the signs They've been doing it for long enough of where, if there's a review embargo and that review embargo is like a day before release or not until after release, then you know there's a reason they're doing that. There's never been a good game that was like hold off on our reviews to all the games. That's such a ridiculous statement All bad games are like. Wait to give the reviews.
Speaker 1:And I for one, I am a huge proponent. I think free to play is a fantastic idea, especially for gamers in other countries, because it gives them access to get in. I know some of these countries, especially in South America. It can be very cost prohibitive to get into gaming, not only buying the PC, but some of these games cost a shitload of money. Just the way that the conversions work and some games a lot more than others. I really don't fully understand it.
Speaker 1:But I remember when I was in the world, buying a copy of Goers 2 was hundreds of dollars relative. For them it was very expensive, and so the free to play model, I think, is an awesome, great thing, just for gamers all around. But I understand, going into that, that the game is ultimately going to be live service. What I have a problem with is kind of what Kyle was talking about is when you sell me a $70 game and then also expect me to still engage with it as a live service game and spend as much money as if I spent nothing on it as a free to play game, because the balance isn't there anymore. If you want me to play your live service game, make it truly live service.
Speaker 1:A shitty battle pass with cool character skins that like not even cool, like half ass character skins and like a new camo for your gun or whatever it is that you're playing. That is not content. Make it live service, sell patches of content, sell your game, package your game. I feel like they charge the $70 and then they're trying to leverage this model and they're trying to like, squeeze both sides of this lemon and you're like, hey, there's been nothing left.
Speaker 2:Fortnite is the bar for a live service game. You look at what you get for free.
Speaker 3:And they made a shit ton of money. So it's successful as a model.
Speaker 2:It's free. It comes with all those different game modes. It comes with a Lego. It comes with a Guitar Hero type mode. You can create your own maps, you can do whatever. It's free and it's like their monetization model. Yes, there's a battle pass. Yes, you can buy skins, but you know what? It's a free game and you don't have to buy those at all.
Speaker 1:And it's littered with content.
Speaker 2:Yeah, littered with content.
Speaker 1:So you feel like if you buy something, it's not a regrettable purchase. The reason why Diablo 4 gets memed on is because we'll have these content droughts. I know they do like seasons or whatever, and to be honest, I don't think that they're that differentiating from the traditional content. But here, nonetheless, the reason why D4 gets memed on is because it's $30 to change the color of a portal. That's not content. What do you get with that? You get a color change for that.
Speaker 3:Are you serious? You can buy so many good indie games with that budget.
Speaker 1:But we say this too. And then I see things where FIFA sale just the fantasy team, the ultimate team, whatever makes more money than all of Elden Ring did. One year of ultimate team on FIFA makes more than Elden Ring the full run. And it's like, oh my god. So they know what they're doing. They're trying to make as much money as they can. It's just. I just I just feel like it's kind of crazy. I see these layoffs and Millennial Ghost talks about the first people get laid off for the QA department, which makes games more buggy.
Speaker 3:Statistically, that's true too, which is insane.
Speaker 2:And QA department believe in games. I think most game actually employs. They're like contract workers. They're not necessarily employees of the company.
Speaker 1:So Well, and as someone in software development, that's honestly not the worst thing, because you do want someone that's traditionally unbiased by the developer, because the developer can tell you how it should work and why it works. They might bias you into how you test it, versus you kind of coming at it from a few different angles and trying to break it. So that doesn't really like bother me but absolutely like it is a plague that QA, like QA teams are as small as they are. You remember those commercials growing up like we'll pay you to play video games to test you yeah, yeah, or in the Game Informer ad.
Speaker 2:Do you want to play video games?
Speaker 3:I don't know enough about the division to comment on this, but he was millennial, saying that there's a battle pass, but they also give a ton of free content every season. So I mean, I think that's an approachable and good model as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's fine. Like I think there's the balance right. Like the content comes out which gets you excited to then buy the battle pass. Like what I'm saying is like the, if the content is the sell, like the sale, that's not content. Like the content is a new skin and a new, new, new, new skins for your guns or whatever, whatever, whatever they're selling you, that's not content.
Speaker 2:You didn't change anything fundamentally about your game, a new color for the game. So like, yeah, there needs to be when you balance your game.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, that's your season content.
Speaker 3:For seasonal changes. It needs to be. It's not cosmetics, it's not you know like simple it's. Seasonal changes for a live service game should be something that fundamentally changes the game, like different, different maps, different environments, different, different campaigns yeah, expanded campaign, expanded campaign.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 3:campaign based. Like it shouldn't be like season four, bringing you colored portals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like bringing your Spider-Man skins and you're like okay.
Speaker 2:Alright, disbalance patch as well.
Speaker 3:The unofficial patch.
Speaker 1:We tuned that gun down. Now you're all happy, congratulations.
Speaker 3:Like that's just quality of life, that should just be added anytime, all the time. Yeah, like that's not.
Speaker 1:I need to play the division, though I always see it always gets recommended to me and I always see that like footage of it and it's like that game looks like it was.
Speaker 3:I've been like thinking about it, because these people I work with talk about all the time Tori plays it and I'm like I've never given it a fair shake. You know, I just I get so I get so into something that I don't let myself get into other things, but I think it's. It's a free to play model right now.
Speaker 1:Is it Jack? Can you confirm that?
Speaker 3:I thought it was like 20 bucks to purchase, but I think it's a free to play model, like a month ago.
Speaker 1:Maybe that'd be sick. I could be wrong. You'd have to check it out.
Speaker 1:Division two at least. But then if it's a free to play model, then I don't mind, like I'm not. I don't mind them if the only content they have is just cosmetic shit. Like, then flood me with it. If I paid nothing, if the only opportunity costs that I had in your, in playing your game, is clicking the download button, that to me like flood me with ads, flood me with whatever you want. Like you know, you figure that out because I didn't pay, I didn't do anything to play your game, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just pop ups on your video game.
Speaker 1:Dude shit I played, I'm gonna play in Marvel Snap yeah. Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun it's. I wish it was a little more. I don't know. I got like a. I've got two decks going and I wish it was a little more difficult. You got a what? What tier are?
Speaker 2:you in.
Speaker 1:I'm like level 14 or something right now.
Speaker 2:But what tier I?
Speaker 1:don't know what that means.
Speaker 2:Like Silver, bronze.
Speaker 1:Oh, I haven't played any ranked yeah. Oh, I've been doing online online play but I haven't done any ranked.
Speaker 2:I guess you're not a ranked mode. I thought ranked mode is like the only mode.
Speaker 1:Oh man, Then I don't know what tier have you only ever played ranked. I have two decks going, but the humble brag.
Speaker 2:Well, that's why it's well, I mean, that's why it's not hard, because you're not.
Speaker 1:Well, I have not lost like a game. I'm on like a 20 win streak or something right now.
Speaker 2:So you must be. I don't know what you should pull it up right now.
Speaker 1:Well, we'll pull it up after this.
Speaker 2:Millennial Ghost says they're 30 bucks each.
Speaker 3:So it's it's half price games. It's not well. I probably wasn't 30 at launch. It's probably 30 now. But yeah, I could probably put up with paying 30 for to get into something like that. That's totally fine.
Speaker 2:Or the, did they have expansions?
Speaker 3:Division two I know I don't, like I said, I don't know much about the game, but I know that they just came out with something. Forget what it's called, but it was a big deal Season 40. Yeah but they they did a whole update and everything. Like Tori was a part of like she played like the like, the beta for that. The newest, like she got invited because like one of her, I don't know like her dad or something got invited and then he was able to invite people.
Speaker 1:Like it was kind of a. Well, let me tell you a little secret of something I've been kind of pondering with. I kind of want to check out Season of Discovery from World of Warcraft.
Speaker 3:Season of Discovery, huh.
Speaker 1:The way that? Have you? Have you heard about this at all? The way that they're doing Season of Discovery is they come out with a. They're it's like the best time to play an MMO is and you guys will know this from any other game it's like right at launch, when there's like all the energy around the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah like that right. Well, the way that they're doing season of discovery is they have like hard set level caps. So I think when the game first came out, there was level 10 cap and then they raised it to 25.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and now they're raised. They just I think they're about to raise, or just did to 40 and then I'll go to 50 and then 60 and so basically it's like they're artificially raising the ceiling and so you get that, those multiple Surges of content and stuff to do and gearing and stuff like that. So it looks a lot of fun. It has the monthly subscription fee and I don't think I don't think I can get over that wall. That's so random.
Speaker 3:I think you would like be like, hmm, world of warcraft.
Speaker 1:I know, but I honestly like I my there's a buddy of mine that I'm on discord with all the time and he is like it's one of my good words to buddies. He hypes it up so much and I'm like the way he's talking about it and like the raids in that game and how the gearing system works. He's like it's so addictive and so great and like it just it's. The best part of an MMO is like when you're, when you're playing with a lot of people and like there's a lot like a high amount of energy, like any game right, like when, like when Elden Rain came out, it was like months of awesome content and creative builds and new Shit to do and it was like fresh and fun. I love that about these games and, unfortunately, like world of warcraft, still king dick in that space and, if you want, a million of people you know that's the only way to do.
Speaker 3:I, uh, I don't have enough friends and I'm also very anti-social when it comes to gaming your personal when you game yeah like I'm a. I'm a more personal game. I don't, I don't play games to socialize for the most part, don't get it wrong, that's fun. I like that aspect, especially when I'm playing with you guys.
Speaker 1:but like, when I play a game, I'm, I'm totally fine, just just me, you know, just me in the game I like to play competitively, and so when you play with other players that are like really dedicated and who are also like to Play competitively, you pick up on tips and tricks, otherwise you wouldn't have missed, you know, and that's why I like to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah falling into those groups. So I don't know. I've been playing around with the idea because I just I missed that energy and feeling around it, but I'm so caught up in Guild Wars one right now it's not even fun.
Speaker 3:I'm not gonna lie to you guys. I've been tempted to go back and do another playthrough of Mass Effect.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, what would you do now?
Speaker 3:I was thinking about it the other day.
Speaker 1:It's about time for a really playthrough.
Speaker 3:I probably have played it, not once a year, but I've probably beaten it ten times since. Uh.
Speaker 1:It's about once a year. Well, because I've done years where.
Speaker 3:I've done it more than once, and then I've done a couple years where I haven't played it at all.
Speaker 1:How many times do you beat the legendary edition?
Speaker 3:Three times. Okay, yeah, then it's time because I did it like three times quickly back to back. I did like three different kinds of playthroughs and then I haven't played it since.
Speaker 1:Why wouldn't, why haven't they done or have they tried to do this like take that universe and make an MMO, that is like. That is like the fucking perfect universe.
Speaker 3:Well, they tried. Bioware has done that in the past with they took the universe online not a mass fact. But they, yeah, they're, they're the ones that did Star Wars, the Old Republic and they've never tried to adapt like that universe.
Speaker 1:I feel like it would play fucking perfectly into it with all the different races and I think what's the name, casey Hudson Is that.
Speaker 3:I don't know if, if that would really be something he would want to do, and I don't think the fans want that either, to be honest.
Speaker 1:No, it's definitely is a different fan base, but you want to talk about, like, world building and storytelling. I feel like there's so much.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's the perfect universe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's so much to give to that was there was spyware's MMO. The Star Wars one was that successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's still. Yeah, it's on the decline, it's, I think it's. I just watched a video about it today. I think it's the 12th most popular MMO on the market right now.
Speaker 3:It was never number one, but it was always up there. It was never like like the MMO, but it was always relevant at least, and they made their money back tenfold, like for sure. But it was a long process because it was also one. It was like it had an insane budget, like they definitely didn't make it back to mega game but they, they made their.
Speaker 3:It was like something crazy, like $350 million it took to to make it and it might have even wow, yeah it was. It was wild. I I could be way off, but I remember reading an article on how, like, how intense it was to to build this game and they announced it like 2009. It didn't come out so like way later and it kind of had the lukewarm launch. But the reason that it was successful is because they just never gave up on it.
Speaker 3:And they just kept developing for it over and over and over again, and they had some pretty damn good cinematics that made the game say they are way different.
Speaker 1:The millennial ghost says fallout 70, remember the fallout 76? Calamity never should have been an online universe.
Speaker 3:Exactly, yeah, that's that's what I would be afraid of with the game like Mass Effect.
Speaker 1:But there was also like way more shit wrong with that game to more than just the universe itself right, I. Don't know, I feel like I feel like, honestly, you could create the use the world of Mass Effect, because I think it's fantastic, you can let the storytelling unfold and then you could use like Reaper events to like reset the world, which would be really kind of a sick idea, right Like it's kind of like a perfect, and then you do like, thought about you, set up like.
Speaker 1:Eve online where it's like you know you build your warships and stuff like that. You have to like go to battle on if you lose whatever like like it just resets and recycles. Like. I think there's something.
Speaker 3:You would have to separate the idea, because people would want it to play and be like Mass Effect, but online, so you would have to create constant sex cutscenes yeah like you would have to Make everybody's commander, shiver it has to be very well advertised that this was not going to play.
Speaker 3:It's in the universe of Mass Effect set during the time of the Reaper invasion. Yeah, and then that's it, but it's still an MMO and it plays like an MMO. That would be the only way to really make that work, and I think you're right. There is a really good, healthy universe for a game like that, but it just depends on how much money you'd be willing to risk and gamble and put into this for a community that Might not even appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I don't think the core community would appreciate it, but I feel like there there'd be, enough market people for it and it has a Recognizable name and brand that you couldn't like. Warcraft was a game before. It was World of Warcraft, yeah. I wonder though you could totally use the Reaper event as, like your, seasonal events. That would be so sick, like you have, like your.
Speaker 1:Each faction has to like, build and prep for the war and imagine this If you miss out or you do things wrong, then you're not ready for it and like, yeah, there's impacts that lead and imagine this there's a hub world in this MMO, so it and it's the Citadel, but it's all of the Citadel. Yes, fucking huge you can have player housing right in the fucking Citadel. You take a rail to your spot. Yeah, dude, I think, I think there's a way.
Speaker 2:I think I know what it is. I figured it out. What why so I?
Speaker 1:bet why you hate this idea.
Speaker 2:No, no why there hasn't been figured it out?
Speaker 3:this sucks. No, yeah, bob, I aware and if you look at EA's list of MMOs, there's like zero, so I bet it's a Star Wars, the old Republic is and that was by aware. But it was after what is? He is still involved in that in some way white by aware.
Speaker 2:Bob bought them after one, after mass effect one, but before two, okay, and I think Star Wars the old Republic was out before then, or was at least in development before then. But I I, that is the only reason I can think of why they wouldn't do. It is because if you have Star Wars the old Republic and say that Came out before they merged with EA, that makes sense to where the business was like you know, let's get into MMOs. And then you have EA who's like, nah, we don't do MMOs, you know. And they came in and said no and so, and now EA still owns by aware, and so I think EA developed earth and beyond.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listen to these MMOs.
Speaker 3:It was their most prominent one from 2004. No, it shut down 2004. It was released in 2002. It was a sci-fi based massively multiplayer online game see.
Speaker 2:So I think that's the reason.
Speaker 1:I think EA bought by aware and they don't know there's not another studio that like or so they didn't they themselves just own the IP. Like, go farming out, does somebody who does have experience in doing it? I don't know. No, we're not even gonna play. We're not gonna play that game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like we want to make money.
Speaker 3:Yeah, did they do ultimate online? That's a big one.
Speaker 2:It says ultimate, like if you look on the website, the MMOs they have on e on EA is the secret world, dark age of Camelot ultimate Ix, ultimate online.
Speaker 3:I haven't heard of these other ones, but ultimate online is pretty big is it still active? I don't know. I find out it's old. I know that it came out like the 90s. I highly doubt 97 1997. It ended in 2014, or is it still going?
Speaker 2:you can. You can buy add-ons right now.
Speaker 3:It's still going. There's a huge community for ultimate online, but obviously it's not Not gonna be a revolutionized how people that's my thesis on what caused it.
Speaker 2:I think it was a yay NEA just doesn't believe in MMOs for some reason.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if we cut out there, but we Disconnected for a second, but I don't see any drop frames, so we're still good. We're good, yeah, it's just this kind of wild to see this cuz you like.
Speaker 2:Everything you're saying makes sense. I don't get why they didn't like this Especially especially since they have Star Wars under their belt. It's like you would think that would be something that they would want to do with with mass-fect, but maybe they didn't couldn't come up with like I bet it was You'd have to.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was that all gameplay, but like, if you, if you do it in a way that I'm kind of thinking, of which I'm right, naturally that.
Speaker 1:You could make it much better like it like an Eve online where you have all the planets that you can explore, you collect resources and you build For these, like seasonal events where you have to like defend the incoming invasions, and maybe you can do it like similar to Alliance and Horde, you know, or Kersik looks and whatever, whatever factions, warring factions there are, you Go and like you could play as Reaper, like that's a playable race that you could play.
Speaker 3:So you can reapers build the Reaper, you know, and and attack the, the universe, and then like how awesome would it be if there was like a PvP mode where it was like an asymmetrical thing, where you have, like you know, two Reapers versus like 50, like Alliance ships, dude.
Speaker 1:Yes, like that would be pretty fun, pretty cool. And then you can like overcome that right, like that's where it's not meant to be, like the super balance thing right, it could just be totally shitty. But then you can come out with like the whole idea of mass-fect is really cool because you can come out with new races all the time, and those races because it's a new cycle, right, those races would then have.
Speaker 1:Oh damn, so it's gonna be previous cycles too, yeah, so like with the proteins you have like your core, like, so that you know the people who really want to play the game can always use a new sonor character or whatever, but like you could, you could bring in like temporary races that have like really cool unique abilities or like they have.
Speaker 1:You know this superpower to do something and it plays different. That battle plays differently and if everybody loves that race so much, you can include it in the core. You know race selection and stuff like I feel like it would be a lot of fun to develop a game like that because you you really could, you have, you could do it however you really want it would be really.
Speaker 3:I think you can develop a. I don't know if I like the idea of like each Season, if you will, being a different cycle you're preparing for this Omega battle. Yeah, I think, like I feel like each season could still be within the cycle that humans are involved in, because there's so much Story and content to tell there. But I do like the idea of, like you know, there could even be something.
Speaker 3:Like you know, season 4 and it introduces that you can outplay, is you know proteins or the the protein was introduced, or like that wouldn't really make sense lore-wise, but like there are things you could do to keep it exciting each season yeah, you have a thresh or ma season where the thresh or ma's attack you could have yeah, like thresh, or ma's, like there's a whole season. And then like the base characters to create you. Could you know the stuff like the standard, like humans sorry, I Turian like they would all be different specials. They look, you have your tank like the Krogan's and.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then you'd have like your humans, which would be like what an engineer or ever you know like that would be. I think that could be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I things like you know, like it's cycle in the giant crazy shit. You know, have to have your kind of fun, man. I mean, maybe you're right, maybe they're like the core game doesn't have like the, the seasonal, like you're building towards a battle. But then there's, maybe there's game modes that, like you know, in a two-hour window you can jump in, play a game and simulate this whole thing, I don't know, but I feel like you could have. There's so open-ended because you can kind of you kind of create this whole thing.
Speaker 3:You know you're united under, you're trying to stop the Reaper each like season Could have like a bunch of replayable content in it, but then Um story-wise, narratively, it could literally take place over the course of like a week in this universe. It's like you can really drag that out for a long-ass time.
Speaker 1:Well, goers too does this with like world-by-world, like it's server versus server versus server, and Basically this is what you do it it totals the points from the whole week and so, like you capture bases and you get more points per tick, you know if you have more bases and more supply routes and there's actual supply caravans that are taking, you know, supply from point A to point B and actually routing stuff so that Supply helps you ward off defenders from kind of doing stuff. Like you kind of have a lot of fun with this, with this idea, and it would be kind of fun to see, like if you put in a lot of time, it could be like a cyclical base, like if you're one of the top contributors for that like weekly battle or whatever it was. You would then give the option to like play devil's Advocate for the next.
Speaker 3:I think that this.
Speaker 2:MMO plays the.
Speaker 1:Reaper, you're the one of the few selected the Try and break? I don't know.
Speaker 3:I think this MMO sounds fun, but I also don't.
Speaker 2:The purest in me says no ultimately, yeah Well, how do you feel, though? I'm not an MMO, so I mean, I guess my, my opinion is more they can make it, I'm not gonna play it.
Speaker 1:You would. Everything I'm saying doesn't sound interesting to you. I don't like.
Speaker 2:MMOs unless the gameplay is fun and engaging. I Hated World of Warcraft gameplay it is so boring to me.
Speaker 1:So, but to me, like MMOs that, like their whole thing, is this gameplay.
Speaker 2:They're boring ass gameplay. Okay in my opinion.
Speaker 1:So what did you not like about World of Warcraft? Well, cuz every enemy, every like normal enemy in World of Warcraft is like, poses a real threat.
Speaker 3:So you have to kind of like be careful.
Speaker 1:You have to like slash and jump away and then slash and jump away. It's how.
Speaker 2:How much control I don't have.
Speaker 3:I Click a button and it does something, and it does something, I click a button.
Speaker 2:I Want to. I want to go in there, like Elden Ring. If it is a difficult enemy, I want to be able to dodge.
Speaker 1:Hit run. You know I'm involved feel involved I.
Speaker 2:It bores the heck out of me to sit there and press a button, but you can't take that.
Speaker 1:What World of Warcraft's combat model is? Apply that to MMOs.
Speaker 3:We're like Think about even a game. Like you know, I'll be careful about what I say about go wars. But think about even, like most MMOs, you don't go in Anticipating like this is what I have to do. You go in and say this is the exact pattern I need to hit my skills Rotations and.
Speaker 3:I need to have the perfect rotation, but it's less feel and more knowledge. It's more. It's like it takes just as much skill, possibly even more, but it I get what Dylan's saying because it feels like Less like you're playing as the character and more like you're the overlord controlling this character.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not. You're giving them commands, versus, like God of War, I press a button, he hits, you know, and I can feel the weight of the hit and I can but I can see the argument both ways.
Speaker 3:I'm just like justifying what Dylan's saying here.
Speaker 2:I Just, I don't like MMOs. I tried World of Warcraft. I didn't like it. I tried.
Speaker 1:You tried black desert right.
Speaker 2:No, I didn't try black desert video, I think I tried. I Mean, I've tried a few games where it's it's that Click a button, hit, you know, and I just I don't like it. I.
Speaker 3:Think for me more than even gameplay. For me, its story, like it played it, could be the worst gameplay ever, but if has a compelling story, I'll play it, no doubt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I feel with that. Again, though, I feel like there's a lot. Like people say, world of Warcraft has the greatest story in any game They've ever played, because it's like there's literally thousands of hours of content and lore building there.
Speaker 3:I'm not saying any. I'm not dissing MMOs at all. Well, I was giving you a perspective onto why I can kind of see what Dylan is saying, but in the same breath, I said that I can also see it a different way as well. And I think there's lots of MMOs that have interesting and fun stories like, even like Star Wars, the Old Republic. I didn't play that for the gameplay, I played it for the the story in the world and I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so I put a lot of hours into that and it is also a very Rotational base style of combat and it's even more restricting than games like yours, because you can't even move while casting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quote-unquote spells and I've never really played World of Warcraft so I can't speak. I've watched a lot of their combat and it it definitely looks like there's something to be desired there Definitely is more strategic than you act like. I guess it's less immersive like I, you don't, I don't know, this is probably controversial, but like you don't feel like you're that character In God of War, you probably feel like you're that character.
Speaker 2:You feel like you're Spider-Man.
Speaker 1:You're almost like you're the operator. You really feel like you have the exaggerated swagger of You're really trying to like micromanage your health, your energy. You know the environment. I could see that.
Speaker 1:It's so over, but you guys but you both love, like Mass Effect is both one of your guys' favorite games of all time, and the combat in that game blows. I'll be honest, it just is. It's very straightforward. So, like in that game is really just point and shoot. So is that you play that game less for the combat and more the story, like the story can override the gameplay for you. I mean it could Like.
Speaker 2:So if the MMO, if the Mass Effect MMO, if it had a good enough story, I guess I could, I could try and get into it. But the thing is, is most MMOs you're just a drop in the bucket. You like the how it's designed is for you to not be important, like you're sent. You're a little important but there's a million other players just like you and so it's like those stories don't sell me. I can't get invested, like if it was an MMO and it had like deep choices like Mass. You know, I don't think it that those you can have deep choices in an MMO, yeah, in an MMO, because what you do ultimately can't affect what other players are doing Right.
Speaker 3:But I think there's two things there. One I really don't think I think saying that the combat in Mass Effect blows is an exaggeration. For sure I think that it may be. You know, I wouldn't say that MMO combat blows, even though I'm not a huge fan of it. I think it's pretty standard, it's pretty basic, it's just third-person shooter mechanics, so it's nothing that's revolutionary or nothing that's going to stand out.
Speaker 1:It's straightforward. It's also yeah.
Speaker 3:But also I did state that I don't care what the gameplay is, as long as the story's fun. So that's really all I'd, you know, have to say on that.
Speaker 3:I think that Mass Effect has one of the best written stories in gaming Probably ever, to be honest with you, and so for me that trumps anything else, and I do like what Dylan said when it comes to the like, you're just like a pin dropped in a bucket where one of the best stories, one of the best parts about games that I enjoy is like the impact and the weight of your decisions, and it's it's. It's hard to sell that and an MMO when, because there's nothing you can do per se, that because it can't affect the millions of other players that are playing.
Speaker 3:So when you play an MMO, it's more about the game, the gameplay, the community, the challenge. It's a different approach. They're not approaching it in the same way that you would a single player game. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't pick up World of Warcraft to like play the story.
Speaker 3:It might have one of the best stories ever, but you're not. You're not playing World of Warcraft because I heard this had a really good story, Like you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't even think you can make it through the game with that goal in mind, you have to lean on other people.
Speaker 2:I think with World of Warcraft too. I mean. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the story that, like, they're so hyped up about it's not even about you. It's about characters that, like, are NPCs and they have cool stories and you're just kind of there to help them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:Like the Lich King and you know like there's tons of lore.
Speaker 3:How cool he is Pretty sure that's how it works and it's like he's.
Speaker 2:he's an NPC, he's not you.
Speaker 3:I don't know enough about it to comment on that.
Speaker 1:You don't matter Like you're not the leader of the Alliance and you're not the leader of the Horde, depending on whatever you chose. You're just a part of their minion army kind of thing, and I mean there's good stories, where you can be a part of something bigger. But you said you would. There's no way you would play it. You really wouldn't even play it.
Speaker 2:I might give it a try because I like Mass Effect. But it's, it's going to. It's going to have to do some work to get me into it.
Speaker 3:I would 100% play it because it's Mass Effect. I would. I would do myself a disservice. I didn't give a shot.
Speaker 1:I feel like you would play it like you would like you did with D4. You play the story and then you're done. If it's you, move on yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean if it's good and if I can get. I mean nowadays MMOs, the combat's, you know it's, it's. I can handle it a little bit better.
Speaker 1:Did you like the combat of Diablo? Because that's click a button. Not really, because I I've tried to think of a button that's a game. That's not like click a button.
Speaker 3:Well, if you reduce everything down to its most base form, it is all click a button, click a button.
Speaker 2:But it's more.
Speaker 3:I think he's thinking more about rotations.
Speaker 2:It's more like I think it's more about rotations and it's like it's. It's. I have a direct line to the action, or I like each button I don't know Like I have more control over exactly what my character does, versus pressing attack, versus with Kratos, and I know you can, you can like, you can say each more. I guess it's just the timing of it, it's just a real time.
Speaker 3:It's kind of hard to say. Here's the problem has those, but they're kind of I think here here's the disconnect so you were confusing with just because it's not a gameplay that we necessarily like doesn't mean it's bad gameplay, it's different yeah. So like if you say I don't think that the gameplay is good and MMO it's, it's more or less. I don't think that the gameplay in MMO is fun, but that's not it. It can be very well designed. It's just designed in a way that you know you're not, it's just in my opinion.
Speaker 2:I'm not a fan of MMO.
Speaker 1:Did you play Star Wars the Overpump?
Speaker 2:I think I did. You probably wouldn't have liked it. I tried it and I don't like it. I just I don't like. You don't like the combat of that one. Yeah, I don't like watching an animation after hitting a command
Speaker 2:but I know that's weird, but it's like I'm trying to understand that. For example, god of War, I hit R1, I hit, and it's like I can just do that over and over and I can, just, I could just do that, and you could add, you can mix and match combos, I don't know what, and it's hard to describe, because it's like you can do that in other games.
Speaker 3:But it's more skills. I get what you're saying and abilities.
Speaker 2:But it's just like I have more precise control of the exact movements that character makes.
Speaker 3:Versus telling them a command to do something, I am making them do something Versus pressing 1, 4, 2, 6, 1, 4, 2, 6, jump 1, 4, and then in Elden Ring you never approach a fight with. I need to hit this rotation to beat this boss Right, and I need to do it just right or it's all going to fail.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Unless you're a speed runner and Elden Ring, I'm going to go in there. I want to feel how this boss plays and I'm going to adapt to it as I play versus. And it's not like it's harder to do it that way, it's just. It's a different approach to gaming.
Speaker 1:I guess what I'm struggling with is I've never thought of an MMO like being a style of gameplay. It's more of like a style of the world.
Speaker 3:I don't think an MMO is a style of gameplay. I think that most MMOs have fallen to a they've adopted a certain style, but that's not what makes it an MMO Melendial Ghost. He brought up the fact because we're talking about Mass Effect. Elder Scrolls as a series was great, but then Elder Scrolls Online kind of ruined the world for him, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think that there's Elder Scrolls Online is still one of the largest. It is, it's crazy successful.
Speaker 3:You do lose some of your base. You lose a lot of your base. I think there's a lot of people that will play Elder Scrolls Online that probably have never even played Elder Scrolls, and it's a different fan base. For sure, mass Effect. He thinks that Mass Effect would suffer as an MMO, I think, if it's done well. I think that they would still succeed if it's done well and designed well. But I do think that I think maybe only 40% of the original fan base would fall you over, so they'd have to create a really good game to get those people in that weren't already Mass Effect fans.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which is exactly what happened with World of Warcraft. I guarantee you, 95% of people that play World of Warcraft never played Warcraft.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean they came out in 92. Actually the last Warcraft game. I don't think came out that long ago, Like 24 years ago maybe. The latest one, I think, came out in like 14 or 17 or something Really.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it was a remake or it was just. I think it was just called Warcraft. See, I just don't. It's just, that's it.
Speaker 1:I've never thought of it in that way that there's like a stylistic to it, because to me that's a lot like. To me it's like that's like almost like saying like all RPGs sort of play out the same way, because I feel like there is such variation in terms of the combat, like to me, the greatest combat experience in any game I've ever played, bar none Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2, to me, has the most immersive combat in like it's not even close, like there's a dodge to evade and the visual elements of it are amazingly beautiful. It's very skill based, it's immersive. I always felt like that was some of the most. I felt like I was like that character because you're like you're literally in there dodging shit and trying to manipulate position.
Speaker 1:I just have never thought of it in that context. World of Warcraft, definitely the pacing is so slow, especially like the early leveling experience. I've watched like people go in play World of Warcraft Classic and which is probably what you played years ago, dude, that does not look fun at all. Like it's like literally like the normal enemies sometimes are like more difficult to some of the bosses. So you like go hit a wolf and you like stab it and you're just like literally jumping backwards, like trying to like keep your momentum and stab and then jumping backwards and like that doesn't look fun at all.
Speaker 3:But I mean I know you've mentioned in the past Dan will brings up a good point where he says do you just mean turn based games? And I don't know if it's just turn based games, because a lot of the style you're talking about, like Diablo 4, is not a turn based game.
Speaker 2:No, it's hard to compare it to something like God of War. The best way I can think to get my point across is if you look at a shooter so you have like, say in like Guild Wars or in some other you know some like MMO game.
Speaker 1:Some fantasy.
Speaker 2:If you're casting a spell, you're shooting an arrow. In those games it's like you have a percentage accuracy hit. You click a button, your character automatically aims, fires right and you just locked onto an enemy. I in like the way I like. It is like I physically am aiming and I'm the one. If I pull the trigger and I'm accurate, it's going to hit. It's not. I'm going to hit, target this guy and shoot and then I watch my character shoot. I want to be the one shooting.
Speaker 3:So millennial ago says like one button combo, you're not a family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I'm starting to like even though it's hard because it's so nuanced.
Speaker 1:I get, I can get. You have to really break this down.
Speaker 3:What does game play mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because like, because that's why the only way I can really think to describe is like is a is you know a shooter? Because it's like in an MMO, it's more. I'm watching my character shoot and I really have no agency over whether he's going to hit or miss. It's just he's going to, he's going to hit or you know there's whatever it is versus Versus a like shooter, like Call of Duty, I'm aiming and if it's on reticle I'm going to hit right and it's I'm the one aiming, it's not you person. Aim at this person fire.
Speaker 3:I get what you're talking about 100%. Honestly, I do.
Speaker 3:It's hard to describe but the my thing is is I can find enjoyment out of both ways, and so that's why it's like I've never been turned off by by that. But I, for me, I think what I think you're when it comes to gameplay like that you're more locked into rules and there's less rules and freedom, because that you have to like in order to get something accomplished sometimes is very specific ways. You have to do it in a, and I maybe we shouldn't just say MMOs, but maybe like I mean, how will we even call that like?
Speaker 2:poor game play RTS real time strategy real time strategy or. Arpg.
Speaker 1:I don't know both of those and deploy similar mechanics. But yeah, I mean honestly, I think what you're defining is just the type of gameplay that you enjoy, and I don't think that that's limited to MMOs. That's all I'm trying to say is I don't think like well, I don't think it has a style.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think we got past that it's not just MMOs. Kyle said of it's not just them, but that's the one they typically adopt like. But I mean, you look at, I played Elder Scrolls Online, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that played like it played like Elder Scrolls. Yeah, like you could.
Speaker 3:You could you press the button and I played that somehow it just didn't feel quite as good.
Speaker 2:And I think that ties into that's. Another thing is I like to feel I like it to be a tailored experience to me, right to I'm going I. Certain games can get me to grind for loot, but when it comes to like grinding for leveling, like I want to feel like I'm actually hitting the enemy and they're they're hurting for the level I'm based on versus I think, like Elder Scrolls Online, big turn off for me was I sat there and I was just like and it felt like I had a paper sword hitting a spun, hitting him over and over and, over and over and over, until they died versus Skyrim, the game you know.
Speaker 2:You could hit him and you could like, if you were there level or higher, you can wipe him out.
Speaker 3:I mean, if we're talking about if I'm being honest here, and this is coming from a Skyrim fanboy that gameplay does blow. Yeah, it does. It's so basic and it's so Seriously. Yeah, it's so like, especially, if you like, just get off of like an Elder Ring gameplay and you go play Skyrim. Yeah it's so fucking clunky.
Speaker 1:Why is that game so popular?
Speaker 3:man it's just, it's just a fun like world to be in there's so much freedom.
Speaker 2:Really what?
Speaker 3:it is and you can play it. Games are more commonplace now when they do this, but oblivion and Morrowind, but really Skyrim. It was like one of the first really big games that blew up in popularity to where, like, you can approach it in any way. You felt like you weren't tied down to the main story, you weren't like it was just so.
Speaker 2:That's really what kind of you could break into this guy's house, kill him and he ended up being a guy, being a quest giver or something, and you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, skyrim is a decade old, so I mean things have evolved since then, but even for 2011, I feel like third person melee combat was a little more sophisticated than that.
Speaker 1:What else came out in 2011. Dragon's.
Speaker 3:Dogma came out like right after that and say what you want about that game. The gameplay of it was much better.
Speaker 2:Dark Souls came out in 2011. Mass Effect 3 came out in 2012.
Speaker 3:Mass.
Speaker 1:Effect 3 was 2012.
Speaker 3:It's an old game, man, wow. Mass Effect 1 came out in 2007.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's. I thought. Honestly 3 came out earlier. In that I thought they did like kind of like one year, one year, one year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think they did like a little bit of a delay between two and three or one and two. No, they don't have about two years in between, I guess two and a half. Three Bethesda created, so it has an ancient game engine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can you believe? Creation engine is still using creation engine.
Speaker 3:The same engine that they used for Starfield is the one that they used in Fallout 3. And they're going to use it for Elder.
Speaker 1:Scrolls. What a joke.
Speaker 3:What an absolute joke. But okay, I feel like those games, like Call of Duty, that engine feels, like it's designed, or at least they know it Makes you really feel like your soldier.
Speaker 2:Well, it feels like they know it, like it, you know it works. Whereas Creation Engine, the same bugs insist in it from like years ago. And it's like why do you carry it around if these bugs are persistently in every single game?
Speaker 3:I think I've been taught Howard with the 16 times the detail. I got memes so hard.
Speaker 1:So like did they just have, like the day, one patch from like the modding community?
Speaker 3:They didn't even make their own patches.
Speaker 1:These modders are damn geniuses. Download their shit if you want it. Skyroom.
Speaker 3:The bug is a feature at this point. I still would feel comfortable putting Skyrim like in maybe my top 10. Of all time, it would be high in the top 10. It wouldn't be in my top five.
Speaker 1:I think it has to be.
Speaker 3:But it has to be with how I put an ungodly amount of time in that game and it has a special place in my heart. But you can also recognize a lot of the very dated things about that game and a lot of the dated things in that game still exist in Bethesda games, which is the most wild part about that. Yeah, even dice is revamped, their frostbite engine. Between every battlefield they have dice. They've had frostbite Like one, one point, five, two, three, what are they on now?
Speaker 2:But andromeda was on frostbite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but that's because Bioware is forced to use that. Because, yeah, yeah, it was like all our games will be developed by frostbite and Bioware used it and they didn't know what the fuck they were doing, because they. It's an engine made for first person and they came fresh off of Only using unreal they only ever used unreal. And then they were told you have to develop your next game with frostbite, and they just didn't do it. Well, it just didn't translate Well in frostbite, I'm tired.
Speaker 3:Frostbite is actually an incredibly beautiful engine if, like Person, knows what they're doing with it. I Still remember to this day when battlefield 3, when they're advertising that, oh my god, it just it looked so good, especially when comparing it else when you looked at a call duty at the time. Yeah, it was so ahead of every other shooter in the game game, market water for it.
Speaker 1:My offer to credible. No, I mean the physics that they had in that game too. I mean, I Kind of feel like, oh, one of the things that actually we were gonna talk about was this ashen's ashes of creation. I had it on my list here. I. Know neither of you, probably have you guys even heard of this game.
Speaker 3:No is this? It's an MMO. Does it have fun?
Speaker 1:Have fun. Gave it no. It's good game. It's like Elden Ring with guns.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's every, every article I remember with guns. Have you seen? It's all the articles. Now is it's Elden Ring meets? Yeah, it's. It's always like it's ridiculous they're starting.
Speaker 1:It's Elden.
Speaker 3:Ring meets animal crossing.
Speaker 1:Gotta play it. It is like it's actually kind of similar Took almost what we were talking about with this idea for Mass Effect's MMO, but it's not set in a space world, it's been set. It's set in like a medieval landscape, but the idea is there's like warring factions and anyway, like there's this really cool caravanning system which is you can't, you can carry loot from node to node, which is like, as you kind of build your influence, your faction grows, you can carry loot from node to node on your person, but you can. You're obviously limited by how much you can carry, right, you can. You can only carry so much in your pockets. So there's this whole caravanning system in this game and I've been kind of following this game. It's one of those Kickstarter type Building games. Yes, it's not real.
Speaker 3:Is this gonna be like the day before? Yeah, like like millennial ghost.
Speaker 1:So actually these developers have done a really amazing job of staying transparent about their games. They did a live demo of this whole feature.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I believe 0% of that, billy. They did a live demo. I did a live demo, live playtest, where it's just a cinematic that we read their alpha comes out at the end of the year.
Speaker 1:Okay, I think they've actually they've raised like a shit ton of money. Yeah, they're gonna run away with it.
Speaker 3:So did the ouya, the micro console that I'm not gonna fucking defend the model.
Speaker 1:That's building this game All right. I know that it's flawed, okay, but so far it seems like it's actually going pretty legit. Regardless of how you feel about that, we've been hurt before. I know we have millennial ghost.
Speaker 2:So doesn't sound like you believe it.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm, we could. I could defend this later, I guess.
Speaker 3:But regardless, patrick star, when he keeps putting the fish hooks in his mouth.
Speaker 2:This is like dangerous to you.
Speaker 1:Anyways. So they have this whole caravanning system and you know, obviously you're limited to like what you can store in your pockets but like if you want to move massive amounts of resources between nodes is what they're calling it. Basically, where your influence is, you have to do it through this, that you can do it through this caravanning system, and it was. It would look like it was a lot of fun where basically people of your faction could go out and like walk and kind of Guide and protect this caravan as it gets to its destination. All the while you're open to the world.
Speaker 1:For like a raid and Like this raiding group came in and actually destroyed the caravan and wiped all the players and like stole the loot, and then they basically built their own caravan and then they got their caravan to like a river and they Deconstructed the caravan and took the resources inside and built a raft with it and then sailed down the river and then built Another caravan once they got off the river and then drove the caravan Back to like one of their nodes and stuff I got and it was like this all the while they're getting raided and attacked and you're defending this and it's like all this stuff is going and I kind of like those like Open, super unbalanced, kind of like Zerg style, like you know, supply raids and I was just watching it and I was like that is so much fun, that looks like fucking good-ass time of you know, like the, the, the crazy shit that can happen in those types of events.
Speaker 1:But I've been watching the development of this game for like two years now and it's they always take feedback from, like their live streams and kind of instituted in the game. So it's like a one of those super high visibility games so I Am this negative sold on that. And on the model of what, on how it's being built.
Speaker 2:I have no faith that it's actually gonna be that game.
Speaker 1:I I okay, the demo was literally that yeah like it was working. Functionality.
Speaker 2:I. When it's an alpha one instant alpha I'll, then I'll start to believe them, but until then, this guy has a scene of fucking quarter. Second of this, because I've heard this story so many times. The game looks amazing. He's demo he has never.
Speaker 3:You're a hater.
Speaker 2:I got burned Still has never.
Speaker 1:He goes from no man's guy.
Speaker 3:He really has you guys, not heal from no man.
Speaker 1:I learned my lesson. But the difference is did no man's guy do like a demo, or did they just?
Speaker 3:They did and they did it there's a controversial thing where he was playing. He was live testing it, and then they proved that he wasn't even playing.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:Oh God. So, like I said, once it's an alpha, then I'll start to look at it, but until then, well, they crashed the boat on accident.
Speaker 1:This is all rattlesnake.
Speaker 2:Salesman fucking.
Speaker 1:This is how a lot of indie games are being built, by the way, so yeah, but what one once all right console boy.
Speaker 2:When one of them sounds too good to be true, it probably is Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, there's, I get that. There's, obviously like there's, there's remember cyberpunk. I do, but that's not even close Demo.
Speaker 3:I know that's not even a good argument, because we fell in love with that game.
Speaker 2:We got hurt by that, don't you? Did I this, billy?
Speaker 3:I watched the live stream you gave it a nine at launch. I did. We listen back to that. Even I gave it a seven great game and Then I gave it a four on consoles. So I Think that's it's totally acceptable and fine to be excited about something like that. It sounds like it could be fun. But if there's anything that the the gaming industry has taught us is to take everything with a grain of salt and, as you approach it, just be cautious.
Speaker 3:Yeah there's nothing wrong with being hyped about, you know, if it looks fun.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that this is an avenue for like don't want you to be hurt I. Well, this game is sort of like right for that, because it is like it's peaked. How it's peaked, like if you follow MMOs At all you've heard of ashes of creation and it is kind of wild to to see it's right because they keep getting a lot of funding and people pumping in a lot of assets to it and They've kind of changed the scope of their game and what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2:So hopefully they can kind of reign it in gonna be like oh, star Citizen just never come out.
Speaker 1:I Feel like, okay, so it's actually come out, but it's just in that like perpetual, like alpha beta stage, like you could play star citizen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's like it's never gonna get it, never gonna get an official release. Have you seen how much some of their spaceships are?
Speaker 1:I've seen.
Speaker 2:Yes like thousands of dollars, like tens of thousands.
Speaker 1:Well, you know I'm looks incredible like I actually watch. Jack was the jacksepticeye thing actually went and did like a whole thing. He's like I actually love this game he did like a whole, like.
Speaker 2:I hope it comes out with, you know, like, like fully releases in it. It's whatever. You know. All they promised early release forever complete with DLC.
Speaker 1:Yes, day one DLC. I Remember when they were talking about that it was like what the fuck does that even mean? What?
Speaker 3:Day, one day, that was.
Speaker 2:Javik in mass spec 3.
Speaker 3:Javik was a day one DLC. You wouldn't know that because he only played the legendary and you know it's crazy about that is he was actually interval to the story. He was written in With the story in mind and then, like before it launched EA, was like making with DLC character and he was already written as one of the main characters of the game. Can you imagine that game without Javik?
Speaker 1:No, I literally like the story would fall honestly to gain massive.
Speaker 2:I wonder if he had a bigger part, but because of that they possibly like what if he was hurt? Decide that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Anyway, anyways, obviously I am like the anti hype guy.
Speaker 2:I don't know you're hype about this one. I just I've never seen you like this. I want you to be careful. I think you're not the anti hype guy.
Speaker 3:I think you're careful, but it's very easy for you to Fall in love with something like oh, for sure that you see, like you're very like Zero to a hundred when it's something that you're interested in.
Speaker 1:This was the great, it's 100%. I definitely, I definitely am like the, I guess, the hype man for like that kind of so getting.
Speaker 3:But at the same time, it's very easy for you to not buy something not preorder.
Speaker 1:But what I will say is I do appreciate the style in which they are going about their development and I think more studios at great street is. A guy who started was like the director for World of Warcraft originally. Then he went to a riot and helped them start up their they're actually riot games is coming out with an MMO. It would be interesting to see what that looks like. I'll probably give it a shot. But he actually just started his new studio. It's called ghosts. I think it's project ghost or something it doesn't have a name yet called he goes for the game is called Project ghosts in the studio something.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what his studio is called, but anyway, he's like, he's like a legend in the MMO world and he they're doing like this whole new model of like extremely visible game development when it's like. Here's what we're talking about. This is what we're trying to accomplish. Here's the gameplay mechanics. And what do you guys, what's your feedback?
Speaker 3:Well, we're gonna Larry back yeah worked out really well, I think.
Speaker 1:I think there's validity to this and like it's not just like we're gonna be super and you just like Talk about it, but like actually being about it. You know, I think midnight studio with what doctor disrespect is trying to do with his BR same kind of thing. Super high visibility, people get to go in test the game, provide feedback, like I think the person should be 20% faster, you know, and they can weigh all these things before the game gets actually.
Speaker 3:So on my blood list to play doctor disrespects better I am.
Speaker 1:Honestly.
Speaker 2:Really was. I don't know about that one a while ago.
Speaker 1:I was hyped for the studio because of the way that they're developing it, but the game itself does not, it looks. I never played PUBG because it's not a game that I'd be interested in. It's too slow. I kind of want to go around fucking find the one gun that I really want to play with and and and click through inventory for 10 minutes. All right, I'm looted up and then to get fucking headshot sniped in the middle the street like that's not fun. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I want to Now NFTs. You're sold on that, I just spent two million dollars. I cringe so hard when he was coming out, but he never really talked about it. It was like the studio and how they're leveraging it and they have so pivoted from that dude, every game that you have you heard any game talking about that. We're gonna help NFTs, not one. Why? Because no longer valuable, it's a fad. It was only a fad because people thought they could make money on it. That's what creates a lot of fads. It's crazy.
Speaker 2:The. The last thing we were gonna talk about, or maybe last, was Pedro Pascal. Oh, that's mr Fantastic. That's official.
Speaker 1:It's not official. No, no, no, no oh.
Speaker 2:I swear that the post I sent you was like that was speculation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that was not official it was 100%.
Speaker 1:It not official. I I'll give my reaction when you guys look it up. I Wouldn't like that and the reason is I love Pedro Pascal. But the whole thing with mr Fest fantastic is he has this allure of being this genius and mad science are not mad Scientists like crazy great scientists and yada, yada, yada like good guy. I don't know if I really get those vibes from Pedro Pascal. It seems like that, like lovable Dip shit that you you would want to cast, not not as this guy that is supposed to be this super genius now, unless this, unless, it's like I could see Pedro Pascal being a better fit for Iron man than he would, you know, with, like the quirky witty you know.
Speaker 3:I have a hard time buying him as the smartest man alive. Yeah, you know that's nothing against Pedro Pascal.
Speaker 3:I think he probably do a decent enough job, but it's not like that. If that is official, I don't think it is. From what I searched, it looks like that's just likely at this point. But that doesn't height me up for a fantastic, for that's not like. Oh my god, what an amazing choice. But it's hard for me to get hyped for anything Marvel. I'm not gonna lie to you. When I watched the Deadpool and Wolverine trailer and I should have been hyped at the fact that the TVA was in it and it's being brought into the MCU I Was kind of like I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm just, I'm not Marvel is. They're gonna have to do a lot to really bring me back into that mind so here's what happened.
Speaker 2:So SAG aftra. Screen actors Guild the screen actors Guild put out a post for huh after? I don't know.
Speaker 3:SAG stands for screen actors.
Speaker 1:What is after, after, after uh after uh, you're too old to play, mr Fantastic so specific.
Speaker 2:But I guess they they put out a post about Pedro Pascal and they were saying, like Pascal recently wrapped production on Ridley Scott's gladiator tune will soon begin production of Marvel Studios Fantastic Four. And Then that they posted that and then quickly that got deleted and edited to not feature that it will begin soon production probably gonna happen. So SAG after somehow got an inside scoop or you know whatever, but that's what happened. That's. It's not official, but it, it, it.
Speaker 1:I don't know he's probably gonna end up doing a really great job, but I think that honestly, john Krasinski showing up in multiverse of madness ruined that, because it was Such a bad representation of that character.
Speaker 3:He was literally on screen for like five minutes and they got turned into spaghetti. Yeah and I just I Feel like he would have been better if they would have done it correctly and I, just like I said, I Just can't get super hyped for anything Marvel anymore, like it's just. It's just, I've got so much fatigue. I'm Marvel right now, I'm just enjoying other things.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've seen it.
Speaker 2:I thought it was pretty good.
Speaker 3:I didn't dislike it. I think like, but it wasn't like did you watch Loki yet. No, I Just don't, I don't want to.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna lie to you guys.
Speaker 2:I don't feel like watching Loki no matter how good our recommendation was. He just doesn't care about it, you know.
Speaker 3:I'm over it. I'm over it.
Speaker 2:All right, greatest it's installment by Marvel, I thought we were his best friends and he would care about our opinion together forever. Yes.
Speaker 3:All right, well, have fun.
Speaker 1:He's so content. I just if you could look up spoilers of your own like story of your own life. Would you know this?
Speaker 3:king of spoilers. Content is different than my life.
Speaker 1:Let's see how this checks out there. Oh Fuck, I get fired or I guess I'll just lottery off myself now. Well, I know how that ends shit, all right.
Speaker 3:No, I I'm more excited about other things in media now than I am about Marvel, like Marvel's over saturated Millennial ghosts.
Speaker 1:I think you're a hundred percent right in that and I think To Kyle's point. I understand the fatigue to. I kind of have felt it too. Yeah, I'm looking forward to this year as a palette cleanse of them slowing down. I think they made a mistake of doing way too much. It was at one point I couldn't even keep up. Yeah, no, it was way too much going on. Have you watched this? Have you watched this? Have you? Oh, you got to see this because it's got impact and I'm like dude, I I'm already like choking down your content, like pretty much like had a Marvel movie every two months at one point.
Speaker 2:It's like we went to go see one well months later, we went to go see one in between.
Speaker 3:I'm very behind in movies now To like. I think that's part of it. Do of that. I haven't been able to keep up.
Speaker 2:I don't think we're behind in movies. No, I am well. We went and saw Love and Thunder.
Speaker 3:That's the last one I saw.
Speaker 2:I didn't watch one that came out.
Speaker 3:I don't know. I didn't watch I man three. I didn't watch the Marvel's I didn't watch. There's been quite a few.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's been quite a few, I think. I'm in three Marvel's, but I don't think you watch the Marvel's right. No, I won't only watch a man three.
Speaker 1:How the fuck am I the only one that's seen the Marvel's? Because we heard your review of it. We're like, okay, I have that power, the power of influence, because I want to say we're pretty up to date on Marvel, though I think I Haven't watched.
Speaker 2:I am, yeah.
Speaker 3:I haven't watched a lot of the TV shows.
Speaker 2:But movie-wise I think we're besides Ant-Man and the Marvel's. I think those are the only two you've missed, because I don't think there's been any others at least. I mean, I can't remember them if there are, which is bad if I can't.
Speaker 3:I did watch Black Panther work on forever. Did that come out before after Love and Thunder?
Speaker 1:before. I think before before.
Speaker 3:Okay, never mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think it went Love, and Thunder, ant-man, marvel's, and then we haven't had anything, anything since the Marvel.
Speaker 1:I don't, we don't even I don't think there's a movie this year.
Speaker 3:Oh, Guardians 3 ah, that came out. That was good. I will admit that one was really good.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, and but is guardian guardians? See, is the last one, I think that's came out. No, marvel's, marvel's, really.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, Marvel's just came out, not even longer.
Speaker 2:Oh well, Marvel's is I. On Disney Plus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that tells you how long Dude in fact.
Speaker 3:I'm also. I'm almost sad that Daredevil born again is Coming out in a way that I just don't want them to tarnish. How good that was on Netflix. You know it's an 18 episode series too, so if it's just 18 episodes of garbage I'm gonna be really upset. We'll see, though. We'll see. Like I said, I'm more excited for other things, like the last airbender coming out in a couple weeks. It's gonna be fucking great. I can already tell like it. Just Maybe I'm overhyped, but like it looks really good. All the promotional material they've released for it looks good.
Speaker 3:I'm doing to like I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for non-marvel things you know what's gonna replace Marvel big, big box office. Dc no, godzilla, he's coming in with. Godzilla and Kong. They're building up a body cop film Skarking. I read they said there was some article that came out that said Godzilla X Kong. They took inspiration, inspiration from lethal weapon for the relationship between Kong and God. What is King Kong? Rigs and Fucking what.
Speaker 1:So Kong is just straight up like a suicidal fucking. Unhinged, you know, narcotics dealer or narcotics a recovering cop.
Speaker 3:What's I want?
Speaker 1:the like the weapons the hell. This show series, though, man.
Speaker 3:The first one's good, even second one's good and I love all four.
Speaker 1:I thought all four were so much fun.
Speaker 3:I like all those old classic cop movies were just over the top. Yeah, it's like diehard diehard's great, leave the weapons great.
Speaker 1:I just like writing. It's just fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I like. I like it Just 80s action in general, probably, but yeah, so I'm, I'm more, I'm more excited about things that are happening outside of my little, things that are happening with.
Speaker 1:That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of my life, but I can't wait. I'm ready for I that's honestly got somehow got me more excited. I'm so happy. What is?
Speaker 2:that even me the monster versus taken off like just as well it's. It is hilarious. And then I find I'm really plugged into this so I can nerd out about it a little bit. But like the whole monster versus thing, people were pissed that Godzilla is like like the bad guy no, that he's being silly Because they saw minus one come out and they're like look how good Godzilla's and look how serious it is. And then now they have Godzilla where you know it's like it's getting wild, like King Kong has a metal fist.
Speaker 3:It is slowly turning into the Fast and Furious franchise for sure thing is is like of the monster films.
Speaker 2:If you look at, if you look at Godzilla 80% of his movies are that silly. Yeah, that's the point of it, japan had, like they had a whole era where Godzilla was just kind of Fun, you know, monster.
Speaker 3:There was one where he had a kid and he was training. Yeah how to be a monster. Manila was the baby Godzilla's name, and I remember Godzilla was trying to teach him how to breathe fire and he couldn't learn, so Godzilla stepped on his tail and then the babies are breathing fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I saw people pissed about that and it's like come on. And then the other one is God skills. Godzilla is skinny and they don't like it. They don't like that. He's skinny and pink.
Speaker 3:It's like yeah, fuck it, you know.
Speaker 2:It's like, yeah, he's working out.
Speaker 3:I think that there's a time and place for each type of movie. You're allowed to just have a movie. I just have a fun time. You know it's not no sense. And then you're also allowed to appreciate the high quality, high writing, great acting. But those things are. You know you don't have to like one and hate the other like just go to the movie and have a good time, and sometimes you get more bang for your buck if you go to a movie and you just, you know, watch big-ass monsters fight each other.
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is is like I went and saw Argyle recently. I had no preconception. I had like, no, I probably saw one trailer before I went and saw the movie. I loved it. Yeah, it's stupid, but it's so stupid, it's good and it's like within the first ten minutes and your cattle grinds a truck down a staircase on the guard. Okay, it's like that's great, that's some great.
Speaker 3:I'm down for anything Henry Cavill's doing. Yeah, like that new movie that the trailer we just watched. So that was the Ungently warfare or something like that. That looks good, that looks fun.
Speaker 1:You know, I totally a hundred percent agree with that sentiment you just shared, but for some reason I have this irrational distaste for fucking Fast and furious. I don't know what it is, but it's like that because that's what those movies are and they are produced to the oblivion and they look visually awesome. I can't fucking stand them.
Speaker 3:I think it's because they they didn't start out that way. They found a niche and then they went into it hard.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's, it's kind of it's a genre that is very, I Don't know, like. When I go to Godzilla I want to see giant monsters hit each other right and you look at fast and furious and it's like there are car movie, but they're about see family the spy, you know superhero bat, and it's like.
Speaker 3:I saw one clip where, like Ludacris's character was fighting these like Navy seals and they're like okay.
Speaker 2:When did that happen?
Speaker 3:like when a house Ludacris, supposed to be freaking fighting these like like swan and then, like Han, came back to life somehow and he gets into a like all of a sudden, even though in the movie, even though the movie he was introduced in Tokyo drift. He never once got into a fist fight. All of a sudden he's an action hero, like with the Jason Statham's character. They get in this epic fight and look, it's just weird in that sense, you know, I think, like I think, it's a mix of genres, that aren't?
Speaker 2:it appeals to some people, but not to all. Like where is Godzill vs Kong? It's not a mix of genres. It's a giant monster fighting movie and it's not. It's not like they're also trying to show me a racing movie and A movie about family. I mean, sometimes they try and show about family, but they've learned their lesson of like. Let's shorten that bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I Don't know. I do agree with you. I also feel like for me it was because it has like a Identity crisis. Yeah fast and furious those. Yeah, and whereas Godzill Kong it is what they know, what they're they are they're leaning into it. My favorite fast and furious film was actually Tokyo drift, tokyo, just good. I really like that one. And the reason I like that one is because it's just an honest story about racing. It's last samurai, yeah, the, the white guy, get sent to do it it is I'm gonna need to get walked through that one.
Speaker 2:It's the same story as Avatar last moheacon Dancers with wolves last samurai I white guy gets sent to some foreign land, it becomes the hero by adopting their culture.
Speaker 3:Yeah, by adopting their culture. It's the last samurai of racing.
Speaker 2:But it's true, I like it cuz it's last samurai. No, that's not why I like it, I was just saying that's how good is last samurai though I love Real great, so good.
Speaker 3:No, I like um, I like fast and furious, I like Tokyo drift, I like, for one, I liked it because it I really just don't like Vin Diesel that much and Vin. Diesel isn't in that one, and so I really like that and I like that. It's a movie about racing. Sure, there's still the elements of you know the, the yakuza, like, trying to, you know, kill whatever you know, but I like that at its core.
Speaker 2:It's about racing and the movie ends with an epic, like Street race between him and the bad guy you know like, and it's like the only other, like for me, my two favorite fast, too fast to furious in Tokyo drift, because too fast to furious is that's pretty much all Paul Walker right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Tyrese.
Speaker 2:Tyrese yeah, and I like that one. I like cuz that's still racing. I mean there's like you know, there's drama and stuff, but I'm like, I'm like there's drama and stuff, but there's drama and stuff, but there's drama and stuff, but there's drama and stuff. But there's drama and stuff but there's drama and stuff. But there's drama and stuff gone in 60 seconds.
Speaker 3:Great movie?
Speaker 2:Well, not in the fast and furious Universal. I was like, did we talk about this?
Speaker 3:It's got our savior, nicholas Cage, though. Okay, but it wasn't until, like, people caught on to it, until like now he's making video games, though now he's all. I mean this dude, this guy pumps out like 10 movies a year, it feels like, and they're all B level and he's just so I need is happy to be him. You know, can't judge.
Speaker 1:Well, we've been live for almost two hours, gentlemen.
Speaker 3:Oh man.
Speaker 1:Don't work.
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Speaker 1:Turned on for a while. That weirdly.
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Speaker 2:Anyways, we stream every Tuesday at 7 pm Pacific time on YouTube where you can come join chat with us, as you can look, if I believe you know, you can look at the chat replay if you watch it after we stream. Our chat is pretty active now, so yeah, but yeah, come, come, join us, come hang out. We love to just talk about stuff and if you guys have any questions, or good topics or good topics. Hit us up, Let us know you know, we have a PO box. I.
Speaker 3:Was like. You know you can stop. Don't feel like you need to keep going.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna just keep going on in that.
Speaker 3:I will go until it gets cut off. So he's filibuster.
Speaker 1:Tonight we're gonna read the holy Bible.
Speaker 2:And this is how avatar is related to last samurai. So if we look at the main character, jake's solely, if you take his name.