We pulled this episode directly from our livestream over on youtube. Come check us out!
This description was written by AI...
Ever wondered what lies behind the art of resource management in video games? Are you a die-hard Lord of the Rings fan, grappling with the 'ringer' label? If that's your jam, then you're in for a treat. We're about to unravel the enthralling world of video games, from the intricate systems of Diablo four and Guild Wars two to the critical role of energy, mana, and cool downs in shaping the player experience. Steer away from the typical pitfalls with our hard-earned insights into the best practices and potential improvements of these systems.
But that's not all we're delving into. Imagine you're in the middle of Zack Snyder's Justice League, and the screen fades to black for a movie intermission. What would that do to your cinema experience? Is it an unwelcome interruption or a chance to stretch your legs and grab another bucket of popcorn? We explore these questions and more, discussing the potential narrative and economic implications of movie intermissions while also touching on extended editions and the concept of 'tiny boy bladder.'
Lastly, we can't let you go without a touch of Middle Earth magic. Join us on a nostalgic journey through the Lord of the Rings, exploring our favorite characters from the Fellowship and drawing parallels with the Amazon TV series 'Rings of Power.' If you're up for a hearty chat about hobbits, a debate on Team Sam vs Team Frodo, or curious about the term 'ringer,' we've got you covered. Plus, get a glimpse into our relationship with co-host, Kyle, as we share funny anecdotes and Instagram love confessions. So, buckle up for a lively conversation and come join the fun!
If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast
We pulled this episode directly from our livestream over on youtube. Come check us out!
This description was written by AI...
Ever wondered what lies behind the art of resource management in video games? Are you a die-hard Lord of the Rings fan, grappling with the 'ringer' label? If that's your jam, then you're in for a treat. We're about to unravel the enthralling world of video games, from the intricate systems of Diablo four and Guild Wars two to the critical role of energy, mana, and cool downs in shaping the player experience. Steer away from the typical pitfalls with our hard-earned insights into the best practices and potential improvements of these systems.
But that's not all we're delving into. Imagine you're in the middle of Zack Snyder's Justice League, and the screen fades to black for a movie intermission. What would that do to your cinema experience? Is it an unwelcome interruption or a chance to stretch your legs and grab another bucket of popcorn? We explore these questions and more, discussing the potential narrative and economic implications of movie intermissions while also touching on extended editions and the concept of 'tiny boy bladder.'
Lastly, we can't let you go without a touch of Middle Earth magic. Join us on a nostalgic journey through the Lord of the Rings, exploring our favorite characters from the Fellowship and drawing parallels with the Amazon TV series 'Rings of Power.' If you're up for a hearty chat about hobbits, a debate on Team Sam vs Team Frodo, or curious about the term 'ringer,' we've got you covered. Plus, get a glimpse into our relationship with co-host, Kyle, as we share funny anecdotes and Instagram love confessions. So, buckle up for a lively conversation and come join the fun!
If you enjoy our episode's content, come check us out on twitter @KDratiopodcast, YouTube as The KD Ratio Podcast! or on Instagram KDratiopodcast
Music Hello.
Speaker 2:Dylan, hello Welcome. Oh, I'm doing good. How about?
Speaker 1:you, I'm doing fan.
Speaker 2:Fantastic baby, fantastic We've got some good stuff to talk about.
Speaker 1:We do.
Speaker 2:But as, as our viewers notice, there's an empty chair over there, I almost forgot Kyle passed away. No, that, that jokes the bad taste.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's not. He did not. Oh yeah, no he just regardless.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's not here tonight.
Speaker 1:He's not here tonight, but we are. We're holding down the fort.
Speaker 2:It's good to see you, buddy.
Speaker 1:We've got some stuff that we wanted to go through. I guess you said we'll go through my topic first. Yeah, let's start off with that. So I wanted to talk about tonight. Has this in the title? You wouldn't do it on your check while I'm doing this. That is based around resource in a man of management, energy management in games, and I I feel like this is such a core part of games that I enjoy Hold on Kyle's here in spirit.
Speaker 2:Oh he is, he is, he's in the comments.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're in here in spirit. You're in our hearts. Good to see you. Kyle, listen up, because we got a good one for you.
Speaker 2:Are you going to host from the comments section?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just see him type hello and welcome to the pool. Wait for your response.
Speaker 2:There's just a slight lag.
Speaker 1:Like what do you?
Speaker 2:think Kyle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dead air. Yeah he's able to type it out, no, so our one of our main topics tonight is resource management, energy, mana, whatever you want to call it, spirit it's called a variety of things in different games, cool down, cool downs how that's used in games and what I prefer it.
Speaker 1:I kind of did the good, the bad, the ugly or good, neutral, bad implementations of this and I kind of wanted to go through a case study, basically, of what I enjoy in these games and why I think it's important to have to nail this part of game design, because I think a lot of times like I play games to enjoy the gameplay, like that is the most core, fundamental thing in a game.
Speaker 1:When I play it for me and I've seen a lot of like, every game has their own take and spin on resource management, and so I'll give I'll start with the bad implementations of resource management, because I think it'll spin easier into like what I think is great.
Speaker 1:If I start from the bottom now, we're here and we just got copyright strike, no, okay, so bad implementations of like mana or energy management would be Diablo four, and I gave another example as well, guild Wars two. But I'll use Diablo four as like the core idea, because it's topical right now and a lot of people have played that, certainly more than Guild Wars two. But D four is entirely built around the system. At launch it was entirely built around vulnerability. It still is today because of how that, how that game scales. But it's also built around crit, chance, lucky chance, and then there's also specific aspects that you can unlock and find in the game that basically allow you to have infinite mana or resource generation. And when you, when, that is how the when, that is how the game is designed right. So we look at like critical strike chance or crit. Damage is really the thing to talk about here Is when you, when you have this path of okay, vulnerable damage it was, it was something like five or five or 20 times more powerful when you would do vulnerable damage, then if you were just doing base damage, you're doing like vulnerable crit and because they were multiplicative of each other, and so what happens is, no matter what build that you design in the game. You have to optimize for that first, and then you can have your own little spin offs.
Speaker 1:Guild Wars two is a fantastic example of this as well.
Speaker 1:The entire game, like every single class, is built around, except unless you're like a true support class, which is that's not really how that game operates.
Speaker 1:But let's say you are, you have to get to 100% crit chance, just so. You're always critic because it double, more than doubles your, your damage output. So every build has to go through that to be even remotely viable on on scale with everything else. And what happens is there's only so many gear types that provide those stats that allow you to chase that and get into that. And so what happens? Is it like the game goes from this oh hey, we've got the world to offer. There's all these cool different types to this, and getting back to like D four is example. Basically, every single build is either built around not using any resource whatsoever, which is like your arc lash, sork, yeah and or you are entirely geared around having infinite resource spam or management management, mana management, and what happens is again, right there, it takes all the possibilities and stuff all the freedom of play and build design and everything and takes it into this, because it's like, hey, these are so overpowered.
Speaker 1:When you're talking about like a 20x damage multiplier of, like vulnerable damage, you have to build into that to be able to achieve that Well, and then I would even add that it's it goes further with at least Diablo four.
Speaker 2:I don't know about Guild Wars, but the game is designed to where, if you aren't in those, you're going to have bad time. It's not fun. So it's not like it's because it's OP, as as fuck. It's like no, if you want to enjoy and play and like actually beat the end game content, you have to be that you have to be that.
Speaker 1:you have to. You're the pinnacle content that you want to try and play. You have to have those focus bills and I, like, I can get it if, like, I understand if it's, if it's maybe like Lilith, where it's expected to be excruciatingly difficult, yeah, but if you can only achieve it with one type of build, otherwise you're fighting a boss for 45 minutes. You know, slapping around that's not fun for anybody.
Speaker 1:No, that's make the encounter hard, make it difficult we could talk about Path of Exile 2 later on and what I'm excited about with that game but make the encounters more difficult to where I have to manage my character more like movement, movement wise.
Speaker 2:Then just have the optimal build and see you later and make it so that you can play however you want, like that's. This is kind of different game style, but same philosophy as, like, what we are hoping for. If you look at why Far Cry was so popular, it was because you could approach any stronghold from any direction, with any weapon, with any vehicle with you could. Just you could do it, and it was entirely possible. It wasn't like, you know, to beat this stronghold you had to have a bazooka. No, you could walk in there with a pistol, stealth, kill everybody, you could fly down, crash into him. So the freedom to play how you want is what Diablo and Guild Wars 2. Pretty much yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so like Guild Wars is better in a sense from like a gearing perspective, because, like any game that you play, there's always going to be if you want to do damage. You're always going to optimize for crit chance and crit damage, like that's just. That's just a fundamental thing in gaming. You always are trying to optimize for that. But the real crutch of like resource management in Guild Wars 2 is the fact that you don't have there is no mana Skills, don't have mana, mana cost, it's just cool down. There's all purely 100% cool down. Now let me lay out why I think that that is really really bad One. It becomes like a balancing nightmare, because the only tool that you have now to balance for that skill is to adjust the cool down, and it literally becomes a how fast can you press your buttons? It takes this into. It's a totally different mindset. Change from and I'll, when I get to the better examples of of like what I think great implementations are at manage management.
Speaker 1:I'll explain like how it separates you, as a player, from going from just spamming buttons to actually actively making decisions and then having those decisions like, feel valuable or rewarding.
Speaker 2:Feel like you're actually making important decisions on in the fight or in whatever.
Speaker 1:And they're impactful and meaningful and when you use those, they sort of.
Speaker 2:I'm clicking all my buttons as fast as I can, yeah exactly, and that's what Guild Wars 2 is is.
Speaker 1:Guild Wars 2 is entirely a rotation based combat system. How fast can you fly through your skills and actually see the damage numbers appear? I used to be I used to be a huge nerd and I was a Guild leader and I did raid trainings and I spent a lot of my time engaging with the community and trying to train and educate them on these and get in these fights and get them better and see what they were doing. I would actually have people submit me, submit me recordings of themselves because we would go to like this damage golem that came out with this DPS, golem and Guild Wars 2 that you could go and do damage to and you could see. You know what your DPS was over the course of a fight.
Speaker 1:And what was really cool is you could go and you could select which. I mean it was really great DPS golem because you could select which buffs you wanted to have. You could select which buffs the target golem had. So you could have all your modifiers and active, like if you were in a raid, you could simulate a raid circumstance. Now it was kind of funny because I was I was definitely a top tier, ellie in that game. Elementalists in that game, ellie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Ellie, as we call it, and I would have people like I would be training them in my Guild. That was like the profession I was I was responsible for, because I had put like 3k plus hours on just that character.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that profession and I would have people submit something and almost always they would have they'd be like 20, 30% less damage and they'd be like I don't understand why I'm not doing as much damage I should be. And you watch back the film and it becomes very obvious. It's super simple. They aren't clicking their skills fast enough, and it's it. The game sort of completely shifts from it's off cooldown. I press button and you're just like forced into that versus making active, good decisions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like at this time, I need to drop this. Yeah, instead of this, I drop everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this skill. It has iFrames associated with it, so I can. I know that this ground pound attack that Gorsuchvall is about to do is going to have a knockdown.
Speaker 1:Yeah if I time it, if I wait two seconds on this skill and use this one instead, I can evade, like yeah, it takes that away from it, and they just, they just like oh, I gotta do optimal dps, I'm pressing buttons as fast as I can, and it also becomes a little bit of a in that game and I don't like this in games at all. But animation canceling becomes a part of the thing, so like you would cast your meteor shower on elementals specifically and you would want to cancel it. You either want to take it all the way to the end. It had like it was one of the only skills that rooted you and you had to finish casting for it to like have full effect. But like bunch of people have done some research and if you cast, if you got like 95% of the full cast off, you could cancel that last 5% and shift into other stuff and and you would still get, like essentially, the full benefit. And so there was like all this science of like min maxing little tiny things.
Speaker 1:but then there would be like you would channel a skill with your frostbow and then you would drop the frostbow but you were in water, atumit and so like to do get every single modifier to trigger, and it had profound difference. I mean we're talking 20, 30, 40% dps output. Wow, when you're talking about like a 10 minute engagement, the difference of doing 40,000 damage per second and 28,000 damage per second is immense. That adds up a lot over time. And so what I didn't like is it took also there was no builds in that game from like I have certain skills, pretty much I said that might trigger a lot of people, but your skills were tied to what weapon you used.
Speaker 1:So if you were using a staff, you had a set skills that you had. You had some utility ones that did a variety of things, but your core damage skills were what weapon you were using. So it took people's eyes from an engagement, from looking at your character, to staring at your skill bar and it made like the efficacy and like the education or skills skill level of the of the player base down a lot, which is really really unfortunate. So that's so it was entirely around recharge time, spamming those buttons off cooldown. How fast can you click? You more damage faster clicks and that, to me, is is really bad resource management because it doesn't. It lowers the skill set of your player base and takes tools away from them, from making active, good decisions, and that's why PvP in that game is sort of such a nightmare, because it's just a spam fest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and I mean even Diablo I, the little bit I played, I mean I played quite a bit, but what I played, yeah, it did eventually turn to where I was just staring at my cooldowns and I was just I, you, I was like I need to watch these, yeah, and not what's going on on screen, and you played Rogue right, or?
Speaker 1:you played everything, yeah but your main was Rogue right Druid. Well, in the end you've played a lot of.
Speaker 1:Druid, right, so the couple of the builds at launch for that, like it was built around, pulverize, yeah, and so that did require some resource. But there was other things like where it would turn into a shockwave. Basically you could get pulverize. I think you would regen if you one shot or if you killed an enemy when you use pulverize and stuff. So by the end of the game, like you could, if you lined up your pulverize, you basically could spam it, yeah, and that that to me, is just not. It's not that fun. If that is an available option in a game to where you have infinite resource, balancing becomes almost impossible, right, because now how do you you have to balance that skill for that one build, yeah, and you punish it so hard for that that if you're not everybody else for that you suffer right.
Speaker 1:So there's just a couple. There's a bunch of things wrong with that.
Speaker 1:So I want to go move on to what I think it level up. Yeah, we're going to level up to neutral implementations now, and the example I brought up here was is destiny in destiny, you could have a build that generates like a lot of orbs of light and these sort of recharge and trigger your abilities, right. But I think this is a neutral implementation because I feel I like the idea of having the ability to influence, like it influences your play style. Yeah, so you want to play more aggressively because you want to do damage, because that's how you generate orbs of light, but you know you also have to worry about your defensive ability. So if you're, if you're playing a build or you're playing in a team setting really is this is where it shines like if you're doing a raid or group content and you're generating a ton of ton of orbs of light, then your overall DPS, your overall survivability, is benefiting because you're able to generate these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think that what makes it neutral for me and not great is that it is sort of arbitrary.
Speaker 1:I don't understand maybe the systems well enough to why certain orbs get generated at certain times. If it's, if it's you know if you did damage with a certain skill or every hundredth bullet that you put into somebody, an orb of light is generated, but it is a little bit arbitrary. And the cooldowns again. It's not like once you generate all the orbs of light and you get your cooldowns back, you're still, at the end of the day, basically activating those cooldowns, like once they're up. There are some ults that you have to use that are advantageous, but with a system like this where you're able to constantly like okay, I've built around generating orbs of light, I can, I can now recharge my skills like fast enough, you can now start to use your abilities with regularity. But then also you still have like it's not where you're spanning these so often that they still feel really high value when you yeah, they still feel unique and like a grenade feels like it's not like where you instantly throw it.
Speaker 2:No, you're like I need. I need this is powerful. Yes, I need to plan where to use it and I played a grenades build.
Speaker 1:I didn't I never had the unique or the legendary weapon that had the exotic, that, yeah, the exotic sorry, the exotic that actually supercharged this build. But I had. I did use all the skills to have it and the grenade builds like if you were in air there was a bunch of like triggering stuff. But if you were jumped in air and you've got a kill with your, with your grenades, like it recharged by 50% or something like that and it was, it was fun and it felt like, oh, I got this and it's super valuable to now have this. Yeah, and it totally transforms your playstyle in that game and the skills feel valuable.
Speaker 2:You're not just spamming that off repeat well and I feel like, especially what destiny has done in the in their journey since destiny one, they've become better. Right, because it did used to be less customizable as far as like orbs light and stuff like that. Like now you can really go in and do those aspects and you know spec into. Okay, I, when I get an orb light, I'm gonna get armor. I am less cooldown stuff but more armor so I can be up right in their faces. Or you can spec the other way get more cool down on abilities, and so I do. Really I, yeah, I agree with you that it's. I think it's a better implementation than like Diablo, of like resource management, and there's more thought that's put into a lot more, especially in raids and stuff like you have.
Speaker 2:You have the whole team dynamic, the whole team dynamic, and it's like, okay, we need orbs power here. You know, when the boss comes, that way we can pop our ults, and we can, and it's a lot of thought synergy, yeah, versus Diablo.
Speaker 1:I know it's not really meant for like a co-op game or something like that, but there really is, there really is. It's lacking that element of you know, team synergy or yes, like oh, let's just waste our cooldowns on him all the time blow my load.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and because of, because of that, the way that that system works, that you have more attack vectors that you can then tweak your if your destiny, your, your public bungee, you can now adjust those. You know. You have more tools to make adjustments to balance right versus in arena net with the Guild Wars 2, you can only alter cooldown. There's nothing that you can make it more costly or anything like that. Yeah, you don't only alter cooldown and I guess, cast speed or whatever, but you just have less tools and if you just arbitrarily are making things like five seconds longer to recharge, that usually has like a negative impact on the audience there oh man, I don't, I don't get to use that and then now destiny is going in.
Speaker 2:I mean armor mods, weapon mods are a big part of it now as well, so that gives them even more tools where it's like, oh, this are this armor mod is a little too powerful, let's just tweak it down. But that not necessarily that whole class, just this specific armor mod you know.
Speaker 1:So I think, fine, we're gonna level up to the last level here, which is, I think, great implementations, and I actually came up with a pretty good list. So I'm gonna start with my favorite game of all time, charted Guild Wars one. Yeah, uncharted. There you go, guild Wars one which is fundamentally based on oh my god, I'm just blanking on it's the magic, the gathering.
Speaker 1:It's based on that calm it is yes so the the combat is based on those, the skills in that game, which is, if you talk to like people, oh geez, a Guild Wars one. Some some consider it to be the greatest PvP game of all time in terms of how its combat plays out in reality it. There's so much to love about that. I could talk about it for hours, but I think that combat system is unrivaled for PvP settings and they totally shit the bed with implementing those in Guild Wars 2. Anyway, regardless, I, I take it back, so our, I move on, I digress.
Speaker 1:League of Legends I think League does this as good as anyone and I could talk about that at length. World of Warcraft, of course, and I actually threw in their Souls games, which I'd like to talk about as well. You don't think of like resource, as you know, in like a Souls game where you have like mana management. I know you have like with some of the older Souls games, you have like a magic bar and then you can recharge that and stuff, and so it's not but I'm really something that you have to manage you do have resource management.
Speaker 2:You have stamina. That's what I have.
Speaker 1:Goals you have yeah so stamina is an absolutely critical thing to manage in a Souls game and it's probably the biggest differentiator between a pro player like someone who, like, can just smack through bosses, and like your average player, because your average player gets a lot of nervous rolls and they're sort of sloppy wasting yeah wasting their stamina and then when they stand back up, they have the energy to maybe get off one attack.
Speaker 1:When you watch a lot of the professional players, they don't waste a single roll and when they're able to attack, they're able to get in five, six, seven, depending on what weapon they're using of course, attacks and so resource management. That game is so critical and I like how they've tied all of the things together. Right, your attacks, with your movement, with your sprint, with your rolls, it becomes and it recharges very fast. But it becomes like this thing that you don't have to worry about 90% of the time. But if you screw up, if you punish, get that heavy attack off and you don't have any stamina and you're trying to get your roll off and you can't, it's super punishing, and so it's this.
Speaker 1:It's often forgot that it's really a mechanic in the game but it is absolutely one of the defining things in that game in terms of its combat gameplay system exactly.
Speaker 2:And I mean there and now I'm trying to further think on, like what other games have resource management? That that's kind of hidden, like that. Because everything if you, if you truly think about everything in like Elden Ring or Souls Games is in essence some type of resource management like weapon. So like I use the great sword right, I have to know when I'm gonna swing it, that it's slow and so I have to manage. Okay, now I can swing it and not punish myself by being, you know, stuck in my animation and get hit, so like everything is yeah, so, and it's a great implementation of resource management because it has you thinking.
Speaker 2:And one of my favorite Souls games, sekiro, that one you're managing, even though it's not different weapons or anything like that. You're managing your was it stagger bar? Yeah, boys, boys, you're managing your poison, the enemies, and that becomes hugely important to the point of, like you can't, you have to be aggressive, like, yes, you're gonna take boys damage, but you have to make sure you do more yeah, and to get your, you know, crit hit off or whatever, yeah, and so I think that's right from.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of fun to me when, when all those different systems are working together and each move matters absolutely, it's not. I spam all my attacks and I'll win. It's okay, I need.
Speaker 1:If I mess up, I messed up right, yeah, and so, using my example, I want to talk about League here legends, I think is one of the most.
Speaker 1:It's one of the best implementations out there. It's on on par with with all these games. But they all, they all sort of carry the same flavor in that game man and management is is almost more critical than managing your health. Yeah, because you sit up relatively full health pretty much the whole game. But it's your abilities, because it you're engaging in farming, you're trying to get the last hit on every single minion which gives you gold. So you're trying to manage. How can I clear things effectively but not dip too low to where if? Because you could see it when you click on an enemy you could see how much mana they have left. So it becomes this entire tool which I wish games gave us, like poise bars, like Gilworth's to had. You have actually a break bar so you could see when you're about to break them, when you can do like a heavy hit and stuff yeah.
Speaker 1:I want to see more of that in games because it gives, it makes gamers more educated. It brings up that skill, that skill base, instead of managing like wait, I know I'm like I'm way off topic now, but when you're like watching a pro run through of, when you're watching a pro run through of Elden Ring, let's say those guys when they're speedrunning the game, they know it. Like, if I do eight hits here, they it's all scripted. If I do eight hits here and I do a heavy attack here, it's gonna poise break the boss. Why can't I is?
Speaker 1:I don't want to memorize the yeah like that I can't I be able to judge like, oh my god, instead of healing I'm gonna roll back into him and try to get off a quick hit because I can break him, you know. I want to have that information as a player and I think it just makes the game play a lot better if we have that information which is funny because I'm pretty sure armored core has a poise bar and Sekiro does.
Speaker 2:So I wonder why they decided not to do it in Elden Ring, but those two other games they're like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I really don't, and I know that subsequent breaks are more challenging, which makes sense. If you just went in there and poise broke them constantly, like that wouldn't be fun. But yeah, I think it. I think it's a tool that we should have as gamers, yeah, access to. But anyway, getting back to league, it's absolutely decision-maker. They might have full health, they might have all their cooldowns, but if they have no mana, they're a sitting duck.
Speaker 1:All I could do is auto attack you and so it becomes this balancing thing and you can almost read the players to like. This is especially critical in like PvP games and I typically like those more so. But if you're, if you see like they've been chilling around, you know 50, 60% mana, and then all of a sudden they start blowing their load to farm and clear and stuff, you know that they're probably gonna go back, so you can kind of gauge whether you want to go back or do you like and buy items or whatever you it is. It becomes this entire mechanic that allows you to play a different way and it makes League of Legends. You only have like four abilities, four or five abilities, maybe more.
Speaker 1:Now I haven't played in years but you have like four or five core abilities with each, with each champion, and each one feels so unique, so critical, so powerful and important to be able to use that you're not using it off cooldown, you're using it tack, tactfully, yeah, and it makes the whole thing feel so much more rewarding, like I used to play Relia and a Relia had this awesome mechanic.
Speaker 1:Where you would you have this, it was your Q, you could jump to the enemy and if you, when you jump to the enemy and did damage. If you killed it with that strike, it instantly recharged and gave you back half your mana cost. That's what it was ten years ago at this point now, but it was this super tactful skill that you could use. Yeah, you could spam it, but it was still something that you had to like leverage and it felt so rewarding and that whole class was designed around that skill. Every champion has one or two skills that are like that, define that role and there's everything feels so rewarding because there's that limiting factor you can't, just you can't just be absent minded using it and then just you know I'll be okay.
Speaker 1:It's like no, if I don't have that on recharge and he, a dive, attacks me, I'm at a huge loss, yeah, and but I also don't want to just not use it and save it because I need to keep up my clear with all my other mechanics. So it it all is around game design and how it's implemented and stuff, but mana management. I think in games like World of Warcraft, guild Wars 1 is so critical to how that game it added a whole layer of complexity. Because what happens in Diablo 4 which is my bad implementation of this right you pretty much have like a barrier shield up the whole time and you never really take any damage and you're just spamming through, smacking things up, and that's like the core. That's like the core of the fights.
Speaker 1:And in these other games, when you have, when you have like all your characters fully built out and you've got the optimal, you know compil, compilation of characters with you and stuff, so you're, you're healthy, you got all the stuff going for you mana management becomes like the limiting factor because you can blast through stuff, yes, because you're optimally geared, but guess what you have to still be considerate of how you're using your skills. You're not just spamming these things off cooldown. So I tend to it can be very restrictive arbitrarily and and games can abuse it and make it not rewarding, but a lot of times I find that this is like taking things away from gamers and I think by design, it could be implemented really, really well yeah, and it takes freedom away, the freedom to play how you want.
Speaker 2:That's, I mean, that's why Breath of Wild so popular and tears of the kingdom is because you can do whatever you want and then it gives you that freedom and, like said it, also, by giving that freedom you're giving yourself more tools to to tweak and nerf and balance the game.
Speaker 2:Then just let's turn, damage down yeah, we're gonna take 20% off the top right here yeah, no, it's like okay, well, let's maybe not allow you know this specific one ability to do this specific thing yeah, well, that was 37 minutes of me ranting about resource management, but I thought that was good.
Speaker 1:I love these are the discussions that I love to have, like if I that I love to have on these podcasts and and because it's not, oh, this game had this and we're just. You know, you could restating Wikipedia yeah but it's like the games and how they're designed and why we like them. You know, I love that discussions because it's I don't know requires like some insight into what you were you were doing.
Speaker 2:I love engaging with this content like that so having that whole conversation, especially when we got to souls, maybe start to think about, like, what other games do we have that have resource management? That we don't really know is resource management, and one of them that I think is probably the best from a difficulty perspective is last of us. So when you go the hardest difficulty and last of us, there's nothing like there's no ammo, there's like no healing, there's nothing, there's scraps to pick up. You can't craft anything. And I had so much.
Speaker 2:It was really stressful, yes, but I had so much fun playing that hard difficulty because it felt like you were in the apocalypse different experience and everything mattered. Like you knew, because I played through that game so many times. But you knew if, like, if you healed here, you were gonna have to go through this next section and if you got shot, you're out of luck. So it's like you, you wouldn't, you wouldn't heal right away. You, you use all your full health bar. You wouldn't be like, okay, I'm barely hurt, I should heal up. No, it's like I got half health, I'm fine for now. I need to save this.
Speaker 2:And then just, it made you play the game different too. Like I remember I'd be a lot more stealth, obviously because you know you die faster. But you got a lot more resourceful with, like, the bricks and the bottles. So you'd pick them up and you, they became like gold. You'd be like, yes, I finally have one so you can throw them, distract enemies or you could just, you know, whack them with it. So it's really interesting to try and think about, like your favorite games, from that perspective of what is the resource management cycle yeah, because it's like a, it's like a thing that they can arbitrarily restrict.
Speaker 1:That adds a whole new dimension of gameplay and it's in every game.
Speaker 2:You just have to it's not always the same, but you just have to really kind of consider what kind of game is it and that like uncharted, it's ammo. That's your resource management and health ammo and health.
Speaker 1:But yeah, anyway, I love, I love talking about this stuff and it's always a good time. So intermissions in movies, yes, so I wanted to bring this up because a drumroll I watched, fellowship my god, you finally joined the nerd crew yes, I only, I only watched half, though but I got halfway, got halfway through.
Speaker 2:It got to when they formed the fellowship in. What's the Elven City there in? Oh, rivendell, is it Rivendell? Yeah, I need to prove it's.
Speaker 1:That's not a good look on you, I know, and it's you got to clean it up, okay, but that very important city very important, it's noted sanctuary, I got it.
Speaker 2:That brought up whole topic I want to talk about, about intermissions in movies. I've always been of the perspective that I'm okay with movies getting longer again, as long as we have intermission. And now I'm not saying like super long, but like you can push it out to to like Lord of Rings, like four or five hours, and I think I'd be okay. Five hour that'd be a lot. But I don't know, because it seems like for a while, when intermissions were a thing like in the past, I don't know why they ended for me like they.
Speaker 1:Intermissions are incredibly immersion breaking, yeah, getting into like that sink.
Speaker 1:And what I would caution if we were to go back to that model is obviously there's a massive incentive for movie studios, like a movie theaters, to have intermission, because guess what happens when you pause the movie, you might go get a refill on your popcorn you might get a drink right, so you they're gonna generate a lot more money, but I don't want to see a fucking two, two hour movie and it have an intermission we'll see and that's yeah that it's a hard thing because it's like I want, I want, because the end goal for me is I want longer movies.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes us having to limit them down to the two and a half hour, you know like what? Just Zack Snyder's Justice League, what they cut, I mean that was also studio decisions, but because they cut it down so much, it made it a worse movie in my opinion. And like, just imagine if they, just the studios had let the original runtime.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what's funny like I almost wish the movies launched different versions of the same movie, because I'll tell you right now Three yeah.
Speaker 2:I can I guess.
Speaker 1:Oppenheimer being three hours long was absolutely a barrier to entry for a couple people that, yeah, he was like, hey, have you seen Oppenheimer? Oh no, that's that movie that's three hours long and I'm like, geez, three hours. Like do you seem Lord of the Rings? You?
Speaker 1:know, that's where I come from. Like when I sit down with my wife, whatever to do a Lord of the Rings marathon it, it's like, hey, you ready to buckle the hell in? Strap up. You know we're going, we're going 14 hours here. That's that to me is not that you know foreign, but to normies, you know. It's like, well, yeah, three hour movie, that's. That's gonna hurt my Sunday. I'm not gonna be able to do that. I gotta go work out, you know whatever the hell normal people do. So if you release different versions the movie let's say you had a t-rat theatrical version or you had the Narrative version, I don't know Obviously that's problematic too because it take more time and more yeah, yeah but you also Generate the ability, like, see it right.
Speaker 1:If you just saw the normal version of a movie and then all your friends were like, dude, you missed out on the theatrical, you, it's Totally solves this part of the whatever, then they might go back and watch, yeah, the theatrical one. I don't know how you solve this problem. I'm I don't think Like I would love to see more three, four-hour movies. Yeah that's just my liking.
Speaker 2:That's. The thing is like, I want those longer movies. I don't necessarily want intermission, but I you do need something. One those longer movies, one like to go to the bathroom. Yeah you need some type break, because otherwise you just end up having to miss a part of the movie.
Speaker 1:Well, because you know they cut it out right. They're trying to. The studios are trying to Reach some arbitrary point of Two hours and six minutes.
Speaker 2:It's like that or what a study that most humans attention span is.
Speaker 1:You know they're operating off some kind of data set that says what people like, sure and so. But instead of you know you gave the Snyder example yeah, instead of cutting that out, just release the two like. Release your dream version as the director of like what your true creative vision was, but still do that work and effort to go through the regular release and then maybe just execute on that. I don't know what the difficulty like if that's super crazy difficult or legally it's kind of weird or whatever. I don't know, but to me it makes total sense to have you were the fans in extended cut.
Speaker 1:You have the room you reward the fans for, you know, being able to Fully, get immersed into the story, get, get some of the side stuff that you know. Like Lord of the Rings, we're talking. The difference between, I want to say, two towers I Think no joke is Over an hour longer. Wow on the extended edition. Then it is on the like, the theater cut. I think it's like an hour so an hour of cut content.
Speaker 1:Yes, which is crazy to think about. And now it's to the point where, when I watch the movie, I can't watch the regular version.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was hearing that like there's essential Parts that are just left out.
Speaker 1:There's entire storylines that are like left out and care, like beloved characters that are just dropped. It's kind of crazy. Anyway, I want to go see it. They do a the local theater here every year. Does the? There's a re-release, extended cut in theaters. I want to. They do one week at a time, so we should, we should have the ring. I want to totally do it Is there an intermission involved. No Buckle in what do you got a small bladder. What is this? A weak, weak boy, black.
Speaker 2:I'm just not drinking any soda.
Speaker 1:No, just go it. You hey, you're gonna be fully immersed when you get that, when you get that audio experience and that song comes on from the Shire oh, take me away. But yeah, that's uh. I Don't want it because I could see it easily being abused. They yeah in an intermission and it's like a two hour and five minute movie and they have like a 15 20 minute mission. I, I'm sorry, I don't want to play that game.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I Don't know how they solve this. Maybe theaters? Let's talk about this for a minute. Do you think theaters solve it Like? This is gonna come down individual preference, right, uh-huh. And do you think theaters? Okay, there's so many angles to this that I'm trying to like parse together. But you think theaters become almost like a virtual reality, set up at some point. Where you go in, you sit in a pod that is so comfortable, catered, you could order food or whatever and you take the headset off, you can pause it, take a piss, whatever.
Speaker 1:Come back and you get to experience that movie like do you think that that's where theaters are eventually evolving towards? Or Now I I say that and I know a major part of a major part of going to see a film is the audience aspect. Right, you're with a group, you're laughing at the jokes, you're cheering on when the Avengers finally stand up the fan, like you're part of that group experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah and each theater has its own identity. You go at launch night, you, with a bunch of nerds that are like oh my god, that's person X you're like.
Speaker 2:Thor fucking. Yeah, Thor's hammer is being picked up like.
Speaker 1:Captain America, that's from freaking, freaking episodes, six of the you know whatever some random comic book number. You know you're part of that group experience and I get that. That's part of the appeal of the theater. But are we moving towards, if we start doing that, like an individualistic experience where you, you get to lay in this pod, it comes down? You essentially have an I max type vision, you know, because they just change the aspect ratio, yeah, you know where you're sitting and they just match it right, and then you have a state-of-the-art sound and you're in your own little bubble and you're enjoying it.
Speaker 2:Like you think we move to that model Because then you get your intermission and you don't piss off the people who don't want intermission and it's I Don't think so, but that was definitely an idea that popped in my head of like private booths, like you said, like a, but you know it closes in on you, yeah, blocks out sound from going outside of it, and you have like Dolby speakers right next to your head and it's like Amazing.
Speaker 1:But I were like five person movie theaters that you can run out and you say this is what movie. You pay 120 bucks To me.
Speaker 2:That idea sounds really cool, but also that there's something I enjoy so much about the movie theater and like going and would it lose that? You know I Guess that's tough all the world change is always yeah, so you always are losing something, but what you're gaining?
Speaker 1:flexibility flexibility history as anything to say. People really value flexibility.
Speaker 2:Flexibility and like they could, I mean they could go wild with it. They could have like oh, by the way, you can turn on subtitles, you can. You know they can make it so much more accessible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh dude, that's a great point. Or you go in there and it's like what movie do you want to watch, and you can select yeah just the movies and theaters you go, select any.
Speaker 2:Any one of thousand movies. Do you want to buy an additional three hours in the pod and you just put in more? Money and you can watch another movie. I. Don't know now or now, or you know what I mean just, I Don't know yeah, I like the idea, but then also part of me doesn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because at that point it I don't imagine people. I Think people go to see a movie to have that group experience, because if you're just watching it in a pot, I don't think people are gonna pay for that, because they're just like, well, I'll buy the pod. How much that? And ran. Yeah can't be that much.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, and like I don't, when I go to the movie theater things in groups. Yeah, I don't go. I haven't been to a movie by myself In a movie theater in a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I usually go with people because it's I want to watch this movie with this person, like and usually the theater is just because it's not out yet, but it's like I want to watch it in person on the big screen here, and it's the big screen, you know.
Speaker 1:It's the audio, it's the full thing, right, and you go to the theater To see it in high quality, the visuals you can get at home, that's we got 4k. Everybody has a 4k TV. At this point, the audio is what you miss and and the no phone put it away. The different like you just watch. People watch movies at home. The difference of their attention spans is Various. Greatly like when you're in a theater, you're what? Well, unless you're an asshole which there are people like, you're watching the movie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not oh what I got a note Twitter notification or X notification.
Speaker 2:I got to go check X, you know one like I'll be watching a movie to my, I want ice cream and I don't even pause the movie, I'll just go to the fridge and I'm great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, many times I do like YouTube videos, like just looking for something to play audio while I go do yeah, 10 things. You know, I Don't know, I feel like I Don't know what the what the market shifts into. I do think that theaters are better than what they have been Like. I feel like a couple years ago there was I. I went to a lot of movies and I was like where is everybody? But I feel like they're in a better place now.
Speaker 1:Oh, definitely, especially with the luxury theaters right, I think people are willing to pay a lot more money for that experience and honestly, it's not, it's not tell you, dinner in a movie is not cheap anymore.
Speaker 2:Oh my god it's not that much more expensive, like then. I Think that's why everybody was okay with it, like going from century theater To now galaxy. It wasn't like a huge price jump, it was like an Okay price jump, because you're like yeah. I get my own recliner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I only pay like and you can get like wine and beer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like okay.
Speaker 1:I'm okay with that price. Yeah for for 20 bucks for two. Three hour. Like every movie is two hours these days anyway, yeah, that's 10 bucks an hour for entertainment. That's about as cheap as you can find For things that are gonna entertain you?
Speaker 2:I wanted to see Kyle. Are you still in the live chat? If so, what? What are your thoughts on this whole movie theater thing, or anybody? And we have three people in our in our viewer spot. What do you guys think about the whole movie debacle of?
Speaker 1:do we get a movie theater with private booze and we just feel like it's just gonna, if we go that route, it's just gonna turn into guys wanting to watch porn. I, I, literally that. That's exactly where my mind. Yeah those is is okay. You can go and sit in a pod. You get high definition and that already exists.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, you know, I don't know, I don't know what we I don't know, I don't know what it turns into. It'll be interesting to see what the Kyle's listening, and now the crowd is one of the parts I look forward to. Yeah, and I agree with that.
Speaker 2:I get it and it's like, but then, okay. So, kyle, how would you, how would you feel about it like intermissions?
Speaker 1:We have a follow-up comment here from Jinglebees. Here, movie theaters are all about the group experience. I can order a pizza and watch a movie at home. I want to by myself. I Think that group aspect yeah, big is big, but didn't know. Hear me out Now you can. If you're watching the movie it syncs with other pods in the nation Like microphone.
Speaker 2:So if you cheer, no, pump that audio no and you can have like a.
Speaker 1:What do you think Jinglebees? Kyle says it's a virgin break, for sure, but it means we can enjoy longer films. I'm down. What was your? What was your follow-up question to the Kyle.
Speaker 2:I just asked what does he think about Intermission? Oh yeah, intermission is specific. Oh god, how do they?
Speaker 1:I go to musicals so I'm used to intermissions. I wouldn't mind as long as it's in a good spot. Hmm, yeah.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean, I think as long as and that's the thing is if you had a long movie and you knew there was an intermission, you could frame it, you could like Write the story to where it's an okay part for an intermission so that it wasn't a decision on behalf of the, the Film, the theater itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a decision that is made by the director, who can then build the movie into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah and say, okay, we'll have a winding down section. This perfect for intermission. I mean, it's basically a two-part movie. You could.
Speaker 1:You could say part one is Infinity War, part two is endgame, and you just put them together, the intermissions right in between there you go, and then the people who don't like to watch three four-hour movies Go see part one, leave and then just go watch part two. Sign up for that.
Speaker 2:I think that's how you do it. I think we solved it. We solved the world crisis of intermission, of intermission.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I really don't like the idea of intermission on the surface, because I want to be fully sucked into, fully sucked into a story and anytime that like that gets broken, like it's a. It's the idea of you know If you're in a theater and you're, you're in the middle of Something interesting and then a phone goes off, it's like it rips you out of, but if it's like a five-hour movie. Are you so you really think that, like studios are all of a sudden going to start creating five hour long?
Speaker 2:No, I'm just saying, in this scenario it's a five like not just a regular to two and a half hour movie, but like it's a five-hour movie.
Speaker 1:I definitely would need an intermission yeah five-hour movie.
Speaker 1:Well, this is this was my whole point when we talked about this in the past where I would love to see theater stream new episodes Like if you, oh, yeah, yeah if, like I'm, really, into the plus yes, loki, like I'm really into right now watching Foundation on Apple TV and I enjoy that a lot and I would pay five bucks to go I mean you have to be cheaper than a movie but now says if it's planned, intermission ending on a cliffhanger might actually help with the Anticipation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, see, and that'd be like I'm gonna go grab popcorn I'll, I'm gonna come right back like, but I would want.
Speaker 1:so what half is it dead air then in During intermission or and then when you come back, do you think they do like a two-minute recap of what you just had, what you just saw, to remind you, or Do you have like super interactive trip like I Don't know? How do they keep the audience in games that doesn't have?
Speaker 2:to have a tiny boy bladder. I would say, in my opinion, as a tiny boy bladder no, they should just play music from the movie.
Speaker 1:Oh, have like an original intermission score. Yeah, and then that's literally what Kyle said they could play music from the OST during the look. At that, kyle, you two are, you know same wavelength, same wavelength.
Speaker 2:But yeah, and then you could is that enough to do? Is when the movie starts again. You have it start a few minutes back, just not too long not to annoy you, not to be like I already saw this, but just enough towards like. This is where this happened.
Speaker 1:And then what if you could order food Before the movie, to come during the second part? So then it was five minutes. The only thing that you needed to get up for was if you had to use the restroom, and the five minutes you'd get Swarmed by wait staff that would just bring you your stuff and then they would bounce. I think I know you would just reload and then bam. So you'd be like, okay, I'm gonna get popcorn now, but I Really would love an ice cream for for that last you know.
Speaker 2:I mean three hours. Yeah, ice cream. I.
Speaker 1:Don't know. I definitely think there's something to long form anything. Yeah, really like binge watching TV shows is some of if you can, really if you have the attention span for it, you can really fall in love with characters and really get sucked into a story because of how long you're spending with them, correct, and they also some of the most rewarding things, because you notice so much stuff Occuring during that time. Yeah, like you're like oh, that was a joke three episodes ago that they're referencing to there and you never would have noticed that unless you binge watch or you had the best memory ever yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'd love to see, like right now we don't what are like the mediums that we have? We have TV shows and movie. I'd love to see something Evolved from that which I don't know what. You call it movie square.
Speaker 2:Did you?
Speaker 1:know that's just like a six-hour, yeah, a six-hour bulk. You know Saga, you know they play like a saga for you, I don't know what the hell. Maybe not saga or something, but epic or something. And it's this full, you know, took 10 years of, I mean shit. Video games take 10 years to develop. At this point, yeah, let's fucking have a movie. Take 10 years develop might be interesting.
Speaker 2:Actors might hate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's it. That's for different reasons, but it might be interesting to have like a. I Feel like you get more bang for your buck to from a mute as a movie studio. Not really actually like when they filmed Lord of the Rings. They, they Set everything up in one go and then just bam bam, filmed all three movies at the same time. Uh-huh, you could do that from a large person induction, but the six-hour film still ends up costing you the same amount of money. But maybe, maybe they find a way to charge more for that. Like, hey, you're gonna get Six hours. I don't know, I know, I don't know. Is there enough of a market for this? I think there is.
Speaker 2:I think there is. I mean, look at, I'll point right back to Zach Snyder's Justice League. That was A huge thing and it was like four and a half hours.
Speaker 1:Long, I feel like a lot of people. Sim to Zach Snyder, though.
Speaker 2:That's a hundred percent of the reasons are 90 percent.
Speaker 1:I'm like where did these people come from? Like I don't know, snyder bros, so weird, it's so weird. Now you, what's this new project?
Speaker 2:Blood, moon, red or red rebel moon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, and it's like Like well, he was kicked out of Disney, maybe for a reason.
Speaker 2:He's a really good visionary director, like the scenes he sets up look beautiful, but it's just Incredibles 2 jingle bee says it took 14 years to make that true.
Speaker 1:I've never heard that in my wow 14 years.
Speaker 2:I mean yeah, why did the original Incredibles come out?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but did they? Were they actually doing work on to like after? Probably, I don't know why they wouldn't be. It wasn't Incredibles, like when they're top five growth. Yeah, at the time I'd even been the most profitable Um, avatar animation aside. Uh, I'd love to see the like because I Would you like to see a six hour in Incredibles movie? Oh, maybe.
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe, if it's good enough if it's good enough yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not a big animation guy so I don't know if I could speak to that, but I definitely would watch a six hour toy story. That's animation. I know exactly that's animation. I know exactly. So if it's, if it's right for me, I would definitely do it, but I think there's so much. Yeah, I don't know man, yeah, I think that's like I. I think the market is, it needs to evolve. I think it needs to evolve. We've been in this sort of stale medium for far too long. I think it's ready to evolve. Uh, they had the entire. They had an entire intro from the cast and animators apologizing for how long it took in the movie release. Did they really? I didn't. I don't think I went and saw it in theaters.
Speaker 2:Incredibles 2 I might. I'm gonna say some. I don't know if I ever actually watched Incredibles 2?
Speaker 1:I don't know. I've tried to remember I saw one, definitely in theaters, I don't.
Speaker 2:That's where like the dad bob, he's babysitting Jack Jack. Oh yeah, jack Jack is not in one, but he's in no, no jack.
Speaker 1:He's in both but like he take care, he takes care of Jack Jack.
Speaker 2:After they, jack Jack gets his powers and he like he thinks it's gonna be really easy but it's not. No, does that not ring a bell at all? Last a girl she's kind of she got it's basically the first movie, but about elastic girl.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was gonna say, and like the opening scene is they take down like A huge like terrorist worldly threat right yeah in downtown or something. Yeah, I did see it. It didn't Okay.
Speaker 2:Kyle said, the 2018 satirical drama the other side of the wind directed, co-written, co-produced and co-edited by none other than the legendary Filmmaker Orson Welles. The film was originally eventually released after an amazing 48 years. Let it cook. Let it right, then let it cook.
Speaker 1:Wow, god See that I don't want to see, that I want to see like, and I don't want this to turn into a star citizen. We'll deliver it, you know. But I to Dylan's point. When you, when they, when studios, put arbitrary pressure on people or directors to cut down to a certain minute for whatever fucking reason, um, just release the different versions and allow your audience like I, I know that that's problematic, because then you're gonna have the fans that are like that, fucking, ruin the movie for me, and then you have them like and you're gonna have two different reviews.
Speaker 2:It's gonna be like the reviewers. You should go see the theatrical version because the other ones are wasted time. And then somebody's gonna be like you need to watch the theater or the extended cut because it's essential. I don't know. It's definitely a dilemma. Um, I do. I do see some movement towards longer movies. Well, with Oppenheimer.
Speaker 1:Um, I just hope it continues and because, like I said, every recent movies is over two hours, I don't see a lot of 90 minute films anymore. Um, I don't know why that. Maybe that's a design, I don't know, but I don't see a lot of things sub two hours.
Speaker 2:So so yeah, we did not solve the dilemma of intermission in movies.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it can be so we just got more confused. We have to let the market, let the free market decide, market will decide We'll have our own individual sensory deprivation tanks where we watch movies. Well, I mean, would you pay 25 bucks to go sit in a pod and watch a movie? No, I know right, it's weird. And why is it like it would be objectively a better movie experience? You don't have light pollution or bullshit Like, and you won't hear anybody.
Speaker 1:So it's it from a just enjoyment perspective, but the audience is a part of the show.
Speaker 2:It's so weird and to push it even further, like societally it's a stigma to do that kind of stuff by yourself, right, like, but it makes no sense. Like I went, you know, I went to a concert by myself and it feels weird when you're thinking about it. And like you're going to do is like, oh, I'm going by myself, but it's like why wouldn't you, like you're not there to talk to?
Speaker 2:your friends or there to watch a band play music and then that's it. So it's like a societal stigma of like, why would you go to the movies alone? It's like, well, you should. That makes sense. You go because you're watching a movie. You're not there to see this act drop here. No, you're there to watch it, so I don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Kyle says long movies have never really gone away. It's just the short movies released directly to streaming now, which I totally agree with. When's the last time you went into the theater to watch a romcom? It's definitely been a while, but when have we gotten a romcom to release in the theater? Yeah, I feel like they have taken those away, like and it's probably again studio analytics that they said oh, we're seeing a decline, but if we release on Netflix, it's a lot more popular, I guess. I don't know. I also don't know how, like Netflix pays for a film. Do they pay per stream or they just buy the rights to?
Speaker 1:a film for six months.
Speaker 2:I have no like. What's the revenue?
Speaker 1:generation machine look like. Obviously they haven't figured out and it's profitable for both.
Speaker 2:But you know the rat. The last romcom I saw was last Christmas.
Speaker 1:Daddy's home too, maybe for me.
Speaker 2:Is that a romcom?
Speaker 1:It's not a romcom. Well, I mean, yeah, there's like a romantic story line, it's basically a comedy. I don't know Again, they don't. Yeah, it's not one, it's not a big market.
Speaker 2:I mean, it is a big market, but it's not. For some reason, the theaters don't.
Speaker 1:Don't do them Only movies slated to get a billion dollars released in theaters now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, blockbusters.
Speaker 1:Maverick Top Gun. That movie was so good, so good. That was probably the last. Guardians was really good too. I like that a lot. I don't know it's so. We've already seen the market shift in that, in terms of what we see. Yeah, so now you only see block? I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, you see, yeah, you see mega, mega blockbusters and you see, you know, superhero movies, action movies, comedies, and that's pretty much it.
Speaker 1:I don't see a lot of new theaters being built these days. They're expensive, they're huge buildings.
Speaker 2:They are. The screens have to be massive, yeah, but I think theaters are still always going to be busy. Yeah, because you have like movies are you know? I agree with them like societal events, I mean. I know it's just a movie, it's just a film actors, but like that's one thing where let's get in on the theater market yeah. I was bullish. He's ready to invest. Ready to invest? Katie Vesters could be you, katie, ratio theater coming to you soon.
Speaker 1:What do we call our theater? The ratio of investment advisors? Oh OK, that's our, that's our studio that we fund projects.
Speaker 2:We fund only theaters. Only theaters Will we have our own movie theater. Absolutely, we'll have we will have a K theater.
Speaker 1:We'll do like what they do with the theater. Super high end restaurants. It'll be movies brought to you by Katie ratio, you know, like super high restaurants.
Speaker 2:I like their chef, you know be like Katie ratio presents and then we'll play. We'll play the podcast before the movie. Make them listen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is their intermission. The entire episode of the podcast. We talk about the first half of the movie. Yeah, we talk about. That's a good idea.
Speaker 2:I really think this is after the movie ends you can stick around for a discussion live live, not live live. No pre recorded, because we get to watch the movie like years in advance.
Speaker 1:Kyle says we only play the movies we like. That's a given and it's all reenactments of actual good movies done by us.
Speaker 2:Oh, OK, yes, have you ever seen the movie?
Speaker 1:please you could be a rewind.
Speaker 2:Have you ever seen the movies? Please be kind rewind.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. Jack Black, we could do that we could totally do that, just remake movies with us. I like that idea. Yeah we'll just LARP, we'll LARP. You could be aragorn Nice, I'll be Legolas. No, he's got great hair. I just can't pull that off.
Speaker 2:Gimli, I'm way too tall to be Gimli Frodo.
Speaker 1:Too much of a bitch.
Speaker 2:You need to be Frodo.
Speaker 1:I'm a Sam guy. Sam wise, I'm a Sam guy. Are you a Sam or Frodo? Team Sam or team Frodo. Let me know in the comments who began off.
Speaker 2:Kyle is just tall.
Speaker 1:Kyle would want to be Gandalf, which is why I wouldn't want to let him. I'd make him be the. I make him be the Balrog.
Speaker 2:Sam wise who's?
Speaker 1:Sam for sure. No, what would Kyle? Kyle would be tree beard. Kyle would be tree beard, the fucking talking giant tree, because he's got the old soul for it, right, kyle?
Speaker 2:He's got to be a part of the fellowship.
Speaker 1:He has to be a part of the fellowship. I feel like Kyle could really nail some Sean being like you know one does not, simply one does not simply walk into the.
Speaker 2:He could, he could be glad to.
Speaker 1:She's not a part of the fellowship but true. I don't know who'd be Frodo.
Speaker 1:No, I don't think anybody wants to be the thing with. Like Frodo, like that is a, ok, we can. You want to get into this? You haven't even seen the fucking movies yet. I vaguely. Frodo bears a burden. Yeah, that burden is that ring and it corrupts who he is, which it's easy to love, sam, but he didn't have to bury it, that bear that burden. So, like you, you go to the end like, oh, he's the only one that got it done, but Frodo I was under.
Speaker 1:Frodo was corrupt with it, but he had to be, that he was the carrier right and he suffered the consequences as such. But I don't know. I don't think anybody like a spy. It's one of the weird things because he's like the main character and you would think like the protagonist. People would want to aspire to that. But everybody like chooses team Sam, mainly because I forget the actor's name. It's blanking me.
Speaker 2:Rudy, yes, I know, I know Sean Shostan Aston.
Speaker 1:Shon Aston yeah, take a shot. Every time Frodo makes an orgasm face or noise yeah, I. So I tried to. I have a drinking game. I have the rules printed out. We need to go see this. You'll get. I was beyond fucked up 20 minutes into it. It was. It was ridiculous. My wife and I were like we have to actually chill because we might die. You're like, oh my God, yeah, it was like. Every time Gandalf looks endearing to you know, frodo, or I don't know, it's just some, or every time.
Speaker 1:Oh God, within the first gets yells at Pippin and Mary and you're like, oh man, there's so many rules. And you're like, oh, every time they play the Shire music, so like it's crazy. But yeah, so it's. The story is is second to done.
Speaker 2:Well um and in music going back to Frodo, it's nobody wants to be him because he's like the. You know like. He's almost like Jesus. He takes the, the carries the cross, or, you know, he takes the sacrifice to to save the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the courage of Hobbits, though courage small people big world, little people.
Speaker 2:Big world, tlc.
Speaker 1:I've met that family where, like you meant oh, that's right yeah. Yeah, we're 10. Generally like, not the roll offs, yeah, not like yeah, I don't want to get into it, but yeah they sponsored the podcast? No, they do not, but regardless. Um yeah, Frodo Sam, I don't know I would I probably play. I think Sam is an absolute rock star, but I think I don't know. I would definitely want to play Gandalf.
Speaker 2:He's awesome.
Speaker 1:But the Gandalf also has this weird objective of not doing anything until the very fucking last second because he doesn't want to over, you know over. Stimulate me what? Okay, who's your favorite character? My favorite character? Yeah, shit, dude, that's a tough question because it's so.
Speaker 2:I'll ask the crowd Kyle and single piece as well.
Speaker 1:My favorite character. Yeah, I don't know, man, it's. Yeah, oh, kyle, 100%. Why didn't I think of Aragorn for Kyle? Absolutely, that would be perfect. Um, he kind of already looks like if he grew out his hair he'd already kind of long hair. Yeah, wait. So then who would I be? Any? And you know, aragorn broke his toe, famously kicking the helmet.
Speaker 2:Kyle breaks bones all the time.
Speaker 1:Investors. I think who's the best character? Your favorite, my favorite?
Speaker 2:Yeah, not best.
Speaker 1:But your favorite, elrond. I fucking love elves in their story. I like elves pretty much in any game. I think they're such a cool race. I'm literally him. Yeah, I think they're such a cool race. And the way that Tolkien sort of paints the Elven race and his universe, I think it's just perfect. So I'm gonna have to go Elrond. I love he doesn't have much screen time, but when you like, break into his character, her history and stuff, it's really really, really, really cool. And now with like rings of power, the TV show, which I know is kind of controversial because if you're a fan of the books, so maybe you don't.
Speaker 1:you're not a fan of it, but in the show the actor Elrond fucking, so I was not sold based on just like his looks, because I wanted it to be a little closer to the character for the movies, but he sold me like episode one on his acting. I was like this guy is perfect for Elrond Jingle Bees. Have you watched rings of power, the Amazon TV series, Kyle? Did you? Did he ever?
Speaker 2:watch it. He never did. No, still nothing, kyle.
Speaker 1:No, he's a little what we call a Frodo.
Speaker 2:Ah, yeah, the.
Speaker 1:Frodo's. Yeah, what did you think? What did you think of the Amazon show? I really enjoyed it. I never really got crazy into the books and I tried reading this similar alien like five times. I can't get through it. I enjoyed the show for what it was worth. You know, I feel like, yeah, kyle's having a hard time bringing himself to it. I feel like the Hobbit does a really good job of also introducing, like the. I don't know if it's the universe, but the universe has a great ability to introduce a character for like 10 minutes and then you fall in love with them.
Speaker 2:Who in the Hobbit in?
Speaker 1:the Hobbit. You have the Dwarven King to the east, like the Wallens cousin I forget what the hell his name is Maybe I don't know Bale, something like that Dale Dale no, maybe not Dale, that's the town. But I like this bitch. What just times the budget so high? The dialogue is so bad. That's kind of actually my thoughts exactly. But the visual fidelity of the show is second to none.
Speaker 2:I never seen a because Amazon was like money billion per episode.
Speaker 1:Billion dollars everywhere because budget constrained Game of Thrones, like there was clear episodes that they weren't getting it and then you would just get. You would just jizz for two episodes in a row because they were like blow their load all over you know, those two episodes for visuals and then go back to.
Speaker 1:not so, but with rings of power you don't have to deal with anything. I love the actress that played gladrile, totally agree, I think, the way. So a lot of people didn't like her representation of gladrile because she was so stoic and hard. You got to remember. Elves live for quite a long time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wasn't that like mortal? How many years ago like three thousand. Yeah, like 25. You tell me she never changed.
Speaker 1:So she has this like store, and so you start to see that arc of just within the show. And it's really endearing actually. So I like the Hobbit, but those strips then, because the source material is very short for book apps.
Speaker 2:I do, yeah, and as somebody who didn't read the Hobbit like I, the Hobbit's more fresh in my mind. I mean, I just watched Fellowship Now, but like I watched the Hobbit when it came out, it did feel stretched, even as a as an outside observer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I watched the extended cut versions of those as well and I still enjoyed the hell of it. I love that universe. I love how they play on on the York's and the Rukai and they have I don't think they're called Rukai in Hobbit, but they have a special type of work that can travel by sunlight. They also like grab the clouds stuff to mimic some some other stuff as well. So I don't know they're really keen to. I just enjoy. I just enjoy that Like there's so much depth and richness to the world that you can, even though that maybe like the source material for like the dialogue and stuff isn't all there from tokens, beautiful written, beautifully written prose. You have so much to draw on from the world that he built that it can inspire so many different stories.
Speaker 2:Hobbit should have been a five hour movie, definitely. Kyle, says I agree.
Speaker 1:The Hobbit. One five hour movie, yeah, instead of three nine not yeah three hour, three hour. Three hour, three hour, three hour. I remember seeing the battle of the five armies and theaters launch night, which is the third movie in the Hobbit and do that. I was so hyped, I thought it was amazing, I thought it was so good, especially when they're what do they call it that? What Oaken shield? No, that's the Hobbit. What's his? The pale orc? Something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, I don't know, I forget his name, like when he, when they play those horns like I love the horns and in theaters, thorns death was lame, like floating through the water and then, oh, he wakes up and they shanks him through the fucking ice, like that's pretty, come on, I don't know. But like that's a cool thing about having a really cool rich setting is you could draw on so much inspiration to build a really deep war.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, maybe the story is not written by Tolkien, so it doesn't have a fan base, and so some of the dialogue rings hollow. I think that's what's happening with rings of power. This isn't necessarily a story that's written with pros from.
Speaker 2:Tolkien, that is explicit.
Speaker 1:They're sort of inferring a lot of this. But the as the destroyer defiler, as the defiler, I think, is his full name. Yeah, what did he defile? I actually don't know. Maybe, maybe something gross Legolas. Yeah, I want to go watch Tolkien stuff now, man, like just well, next month it's kind of a yeah, you're right, it's kind of an intimidating thing to sit down and watch Lord of the Rings, so it's so much. I will do I have a day that I could piss away?
Speaker 2:Yes, See, I really enjoyed it going in fresh, just because it. I wasn't intimidated by it because I felt like I was ready to just get sucked in because I'd never. I don't remember. I remember bits and pieces from like memes and stuff like, oh man, when I saw in the very beginning when Gandalf shows up and he sees Frodo and Frodo like does the laugh and he jumps in the cart, and then yeah you, I just thought of the meme that we watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're laughing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jumps in and he hits the car.
Speaker 1:You're like oh, that didn't happen, yeah, I was like wait, you know, what's funny is, the story between Keeley and Tariel is one of, I think, the largest criticisms of that series that people really did not enjoy. That shouldn't have had any place in the story. But again, I think I don't know. I feel he passed to show me of course, yes, you, actually, you know, fucking interrupt the story, dude. You sit down. You don't interrupt the Lord of the Rings. How dare you so were you on your phone the whole fuck.
Speaker 2:No, alright.
Speaker 1:Did you put it away after?
Speaker 2:that Put it away any more means did you show out?
Speaker 1:There might have been one more me.
Speaker 2:But it's only because you guys show me so many Lord of the Rings Dude. I I'm probably a cancer to watch the movie with the other one as soon as Samwise gets to the edge of the cornfield and he's like this is the longest and then every step he takes he says that Did you have to pull?
Speaker 1:that I didn't pull it up, but I but you mentioned it, right?
Speaker 2:I pause the movie and I.
Speaker 1:So that's exactly why there's memes about this, where when you're watching the movie and you bring up every single thing that you know about the the movie, it's yeah, and we continue to pause it because he had questions. Oh, so you were engaged. Yeah because questions that that movie, if you like, if you struggle, like my wife struggles with names, especially like with accents or something, and some of them have like you know, english accents or whatever Australian or whatever she struggles with, like tracing line.
Speaker 1:Okay, wait, who is that again? Oh, sometimes they use the same letters, like the worst one is Saruman and Saran. Saran yeah holy shit, dude, that one's tough to like Separate, because you think, oh my god, that's the bad guy. It's like no, I'm already and it's like oh, we know, sorrow mon Like, oh well, he's probably gonna be bad. That's a pretty close, you know so like.
Speaker 1:I have to sort of kind of redraw those lines. But no joke, my wife's favorite movie is which one? So she sort of has a similar take. I we view them as like one one epic one, epic, because you were selling.
Speaker 2:You were saying earlier number two is your favorite, two is my favorite.
Speaker 1:I love so much Helms, the Helms deep fight. I think that's the best battle scene in the entire In the tire show. Three for me is sort of the fight is still amazing, but it's really. It's not ruined but brought down a little bit by the ghost army, just like cleaning up shop at the end of the movie, because they just literally come in and like kill everything and all saved and it's like Okay, like if they would have got their five minutes earlier, a lot of people wouldn't died. I did have to shame a bit, since he hasn't seen it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I get shamed all the time from you guys too.
Speaker 1:So good thing Dylan didn't watch with us. We'd be hella mean to him every time he asked a question because we'd expect him to know it. Yeah, oh yeah, this would be mean. I wouldn't be mean, because I would be like wanting to show you I would overload you, like listen page six.
Speaker 2:You know, in this scene he broke his toe. Did you know when? Sam?
Speaker 1:ran out into the river to chase down Frodo. He stepped on a piece of glass and cut his foot open. They had a delay production for like.
Speaker 1:I'm like that stupid with silly ass knowledge. Yeah, two towers absolutely is my favorite. I the Helms deep fight Because it's like a good. There's like real scarcity there there's. I also think like the dynamic of how the orcs are fighting them is really Like warfare Bound like it, like it's realistic, and how that siege takes place. The music, in my opinion, is the best. This, the, the fight in three, definitely has epic fucking moments, but just to that Helms deep, the setting, the. It's so good, man, so good. My Wi-Fi's name is routers of row. The soundtrack is so good. That's awesome. Actually, I like that a lot. Yeah, and then, yeah, we would pause it at that point. Writers of Rohan the sheet the sheet meme.
Speaker 2:God, you've ruined the movies for me, you guys know that, right, I'll be trying to take something serious, and then writers are all yeah, pulls me out immediately. Like, I'm sure, when I see Sean.
Speaker 1:Bean die.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna think of where he's dancing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, mm-hmm, yep, or you're gonna hear him blow the horn of Gondor and you're gonna think of the epic sax man. Do, do, do, do, do.
Speaker 2:The charge of the writers of Rohan and three can't be beat that, like I said, I think that has.
Speaker 1:There's moments in three that are, I mean, goose bumps, when you know, when you know, but that Helms deep is just that. Two is is so fucking good, it's so good, I Love it so much. One is narrative building. There's really not like a big epic fight, but two and three have half the movie of a fucking siege and it's real like there's no, there's really not CGI fucking real makeup Miniatures. You know, obviously there's some shit that's not real.
Speaker 2:But dragons not real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, ryan, can you believe it? Well, they're all good. The return of the king was the first one I saw in theaters. That has a special place in my heart. I Don't know which one, I know I wasn't on the train early and in Lord of the Rings I was too young to see. Well, I wasn't. I mean, I Would never go to a theater to see three like you know what I mean. Like I think that would probably be the age that my parents were pretty strict with like PG-13 and I don't know what. I actually don't know what the rating is for. What is the rating, kyle, for Lord of the Rings? The PG or PG-13? I Would imagine PG-13. I saw all of them in theaters. I was four. It is PG-13. My friends are pretty strict about that shit. So like I had to be like hmm, are you 13 yet? It was kind of wack dude. But so I didn't. I don't think I actually I actually really tried to sit down and get into until I was in college, which is crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, I'm excited to experience them for pretty much first time.
Speaker 1:Crank up. Crank it up loud, enjoy the music. Keep asking questions. I think you'll. I'm pausing on me. I know there's undoubtedly so. It might not be your favorite movie all Time. That might always be. You're an installer and it just might be, yeah, that impression you know when you saw it.
Speaker 2:But I think there's no doubt in my mind that this Genre and the way it's portrayed in film is gonna be a movie that you thoroughly love well, and I can already say from just what I've seen of the fellowship so far so like the first half, like it's gone against what I remembered and why I didn't watch it, like because my small memory of it, like I barely remembered it at all but I Didn't remember anything, so I Didn't really like have any memory to be like oh man, I really want to watch. It was just like analyst Frodo and you know Gandalf and. But now going through it I I get the appeal, I'm feeling the charm, I'm, I'm allowed To immerse myself. Now I don't think the age I watched it I was able to immerse myself like I am right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really don't. If I watched it at like you know, jigglebees was for Kyle was like eight or nine, like I know I want to know what, at what level they appreciated it, if it left such a lasting impression or if it didn't they were four years old.
Speaker 1:Wow, do you walk out of there at four and you go? Holy shit, I doubt it. One of my best friends, he he went and saw it and he thought he's going to see a chick flick. This is called the rings. He's like you know, oh my god. Lord of the Rings, like oh shit, you know like I'm going to see like that or let exactly.
Speaker 1:And then he saw and it blew His nuts off and he's like this is the greatest shit of all time. So he was in that. So so Kyle says it changes life at eight.
Speaker 2:Okay, eight years old, it changes life. So, kyle, were you running around the house pretending to be Erick or Legolas? How did that? Before you saw the menu? Let's be real, true? Well, I mean like, because for me he wouldn't, that was drag ball you see like a knight of the Templar for Halloween when he's a kid.
Speaker 1:No, for real is a dramatic kid. When I played If you want him come and clean, yeah, okay, apparently. Yeah, kyle has a twisted memory. I feel like it's always, you know, me against him in a lot of the ship. But apparently I made fun of him.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:I doubt that somehow, but I'm sure he's got eight, eight examples that are somehow. I don't remember them. And yeah, if you want him, come and clean.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:I just saw that scene for the first Second time. It was good. It's hype. Yeah, the water horses.
Speaker 1:Nina, nine and he know what she says, but then, like the, they come running down the. What I don't, I never understood about that scene is like they paused for a second, like it is yeah, well, okay, so do we wait for her to attack? I was gonna say now it's time to go, yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought that they couldn't cross the river because the whole time she was talking about I spent on him.
Speaker 1:Everybody's been on. Yeah sure, eight years old, this is spinning on kids. You've nerd, we remember. That's why you like my brother better. Wow, you're a bit of a bully. Yeah, I definitely was not.
Speaker 2:It was your hair, huh, dude. I was made, you mean it the hair?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was. It was like an extension of my ego and just, and I just Channeled it into bully rage. Yeah. No I was the kid in a helmet and knee pads trying to skateboard but failing epically. Yeah, no, I was definitely not a bully, I was a nerd. I was playing Gilgores, one like I canceled summers because I was playing this. Know, I know.
Speaker 2:I. Had a very I don't know what's the name for Lord of the Ring nerds.
Speaker 1:Nerd of the Rings. Nerd of the Rings? Well, that's a YouTube channel. That's fucking fantastic. No bees, if you haven't checked it out.
Speaker 2:What's like? You know, because you have like this, oh, like the Trekkies.
Speaker 1:I don't, oh boy what's the? Lord of the Rings, tolkienians.
Speaker 2:I don't know what is.
Speaker 1:What is the fandom name for? I Don't think it has anything to do with Lord of the Rings. I think it's Tolkien Society.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the society that, like I, know in charge of his estate, and you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know, does they a?
Speaker 2:ringer yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm a ringer.
Speaker 2:God, that's, I get it, but I can't help it laugh.
Speaker 1:I'm a part of the ringers. Oh God, it's so weird. Trekkies is kind of maybe it's normalized, but sounds like a, sounds like a slur. Not a fan it does you ringer?
Speaker 2:are you part of the ring?
Speaker 1:Oh God, I couldn't even take myself. We don't take kindly to ringers around here. Hey, why is it gotta be for the South man Come?
Speaker 2:on. That's third. You know they're the people who are slurs.
Speaker 1:They're welcome to change. Normally. I mean that's how their group would be described. I don't know. I think it's like the toll.
Speaker 2:We have a token it's ringers.
Speaker 1:Gotta be careful with that one. Yep Ring a. Gotta be careful.
Speaker 2:Cancel before you get started every time I hear it, I think of the. You still need to watch this movie.
Speaker 1:Johnny Knoxville the ringer oh God, or he infiltrates the special Olympics for love I.
Speaker 2:I Sincerely don't think actually for money, and then he falls in love.
Speaker 1:I, oh man, great movie. I'll take your word for it. Your ringer though it's like part of your Initiation you know what I'm gonna have to actually look this up like.
Speaker 2:What the Tolkien fan base is called, if it's in the top five.
Speaker 1:Tolkien night. Tolkien night. Tolkien Dill.
Speaker 2:Tolkien fandom how do you return?
Speaker 1:How do you refer to yourself as a Tolkien fan? Ringers right there? Oh, they're not fucking around. It's actually ringer. It's a. I was being serious, it's actually a ringer. That's so lame, I'm sorry. I would never call myself a ringer, especially considering that it's not that limits Tolkien's work to just Lord of the Rings. I Guess all of them have like the rings of power. That's like a core theme in his yeah, even in. Hobbit? Holy shit, I'm never referring to myself as a ringer and I'm not Tolkien Dill.
Speaker 2:Okay, night night.
Speaker 1:That's the most approachable one, but I Nobody would know what the fuck you're talking about. I've watched every A lot of content on Lord of the Rings and I had no idea that ringers.
Speaker 2:Was actually the fucking fan club, see now, when you call me a weeb, I can throw it right back and say you ringer, please do.
Speaker 1:I would love for that, that Attack vector of mine towards you to be returned, because I feel guilty sometimes when I'm throwing that at you.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna greet you with subringer subringer.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, I literally can't take myself serious if I actually said that. This is the fan base you chose like oh my god, you love Lord of the Rings. I'm a ringer too. Holy shit, I didn't know what's up. Let me tap you up.
Speaker 2:There's a ringer convention downtown. Do you want to go?
Speaker 1:Why does it not work? Why does like? Why does trekking? Why does trekky work? Yeah, and ringer just Bo, because trekky, star Trek. Like you say trekky and you talk to somebody who's never seen Star Trek, they probably could figure out what the Lord of the Rings ringer. Yeah, but Hmm, I don't know Hobbits, so you guys, you called it out ringer. Do you guys actually like that term of endearment for that group? You think that that actually Like? Is that something you could be proud of saying? Like you put that on a resume.
Speaker 2:It'd be hobbits is notable interests.
Speaker 1:I'm a ringer. That sounds like hell. No, right, that sounds like you fucking fight for a living, like you're in MMA.
Speaker 2:I'm a ringer. It sounds more like sexual like some type of weird. I'm a ringer, I'm. Into rings filthy little little hobbits is yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually that would be kind of cool, because then Definitely the public would not know what the fuck you're talking about. But it's so Quirky and weird that it's acceptable like ringer is edgy and it's just not good, I'm a ringer, yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, that is hilarious, though I Huh, what do you Star Wars fans call themselves?
Speaker 1:Oh god, I feel like I should know this Jedi's the light or the dog look it up, let's see, unless our chat. Typing is how fucking dare you not know this? It's fucking called X and you can't believe you don't know this. It's so disgusting. I've never do that.
Speaker 2:I can see where why you'd spit on him.
Speaker 1:I Can see you have to stop him. You know you got to stop him this track, no I mean, I see your aggression. Yeah, I might just spin on him while I'm shouting at him they don't really have one. Kyle says Jar Jar's. Oh, that's actually pretty, that's pretty decent when the jar.
Speaker 2:I'm a jar head.
Speaker 1:No, I'm a Jar Jar guy. No, I don't know, it's not that great. Maybe it only works for truckie, because it's kind of I.
Speaker 2:But see, the thing is funny, is that works?
Speaker 1:I'm a little, I'm a toky.
Speaker 2:I'm a toky, I'm a toky, I'm a toky.
Speaker 1:I'm a toky keeper. Toky per like, I'm a keeper of the toll can talk ringer. I'm a ring of the tokes the took took.
Speaker 2:I'm a baggins. What are you saying at this point? Baggins is, why didn't they do fellowship?
Speaker 1:That's kind of actually. They had it on the nose, yeah, and they didn't Because that's already stolen by religion.
Speaker 2:But I feel like, yeah, part of the fellowship. Oh really which?
Speaker 1:one do you go to?
Speaker 2:The fellowship of the ring the ring.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're a dirty fellowship ringer.
Speaker 2:You're a ringer, I Think. For me it's the, it's the R, it's the ER Is what makes it silly, oh.
Speaker 1:No, I think it's a whole context the whole ringer, it's just it sounds like you. You're a fighter. But when I picture a Mid-30s Lord of the Rings fan, it's like a guy who's mildly out of shape. Bald he's a ringer. Oh, you're a ringer. My wife's a ringer.
Speaker 2:My wife's a ringer it's like some type of like sex addiction or like drug addiction. We ring for fun. What's up my ringer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not where it needs to be. Um smiggles maybe, I don't know what. Oh, I mean Frodo's like, what's like Rivendale. There's the Shire you got.
Speaker 2:Rohan.
Speaker 1:The writers of Rohan, there you go, or like Gondorians.
Speaker 2:Rohanians? Yeah, that's not good.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah. Do you want to work if people find it already? You want to keep this going. I'm having fun.
Speaker 2:Up to you care.
Speaker 1:We can what else so you have? So what are like? So for me, uh-huh, like your big glaring spot, like that you missed is Lord of the Rings in terms of your nerd, nerd background background.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for me, like I have pretty much anything before like the 2000s that I missed and I really struggle with going back to watch because if you look at like the sci-fi genre pre 2000s, it gets pretty fucking rough, right. Yeah, like in terms of CTI, and I really struggle with some of the like Terminator, the original one is pretty tough to go back and watch. You're just like what I.
Speaker 2:Don't know, I thought that one looks great still because it's practical.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? It's practical.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what part do you talk about that CG?
Speaker 1:Well, maybe I'm thinking of, maybe not the original one. Then I'm thinking of when they get later on, even when he's like the Melton dude, are you thinking that Terminator? No like.
Speaker 2:He goes. I don't know that one with CG, but I think the original is practical.
Speaker 1:Well, I think, I think it has a sum to do with CG, but it also has to do with a lot of it, like the 80s style art Direction, you know like how, how they actually bring that film to life not an 80s fan, yeah, so like I have that glaring spot there, but then I also I also like just don't have like any anime background and it's crazy.
Speaker 2:We've talked about this what. Sorry, cyberpunk. Yeah, you watched it twice.
Speaker 1:But that's, that's again. That's newer. But like I see the, I see the Like the world and how heavy people are, like how high people are on animated stuff. We were talking about this. We go to the mall it's. It's fucking crazy how much animation shit that you can just buy it like. It's like every five stores is some kind of Anime or something. We bullshit, yeah, ringer like it it's just not.
Speaker 1:I've just always been that guy that doesn't really like. I like realistic stuff and I don't really like a lot of the animation. I can't really get into it. So that's like a huge gap of mine in terms of my knowledge and it's like growing because there's just all these crazy shows. So I don't know what else are you? You feel like you're missing. Game of Thrones, walking dead you never watched walking dead.
Speaker 2:No, that's you guys. Kyle, always, how knows, I'm sure. But yeah, game of Thrones, that's what I get teased about, but I don't know, I don't. The thrones after I. I was planning to watch it, but then, as soon as I heard the reviews for like the last season, all my will to watch it was just like nah.
Speaker 1:Game of Thrones was one of those things that, like you were on the shit, you were on board or you weren't, and once that shit passed, I Don't think anybody like I very rarely ever hear anybody like oh, I watched Game of Thrones for the first time last year, so fucking good, like I don't know. It's one of those shows it's tough to binge that first season, the first like four or five episodes. There's a lot of nothing that goes on and you're just like what the fuck? It ends super exciting like. Oh, their whole thing is we kill people in the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah and that was like oh, and there's also titties. You know like we kill people and there's titties, and it was like alright.
Speaker 1:Nice and everyone you know our generation was like fuck yeah, we could watch this for their parents. I can see boobs, so great, my parents are into it, but I'm really, yeah, anyway, that's, that's like half the guys that I knew in high school ever watched. That shit actually came out when I was in college, but Little bit of bull, but anyway the. I just feel like Once that ship sailed and and they had wrote then into history like what they wanted to do with that last season.
Speaker 1:It was not good. It was not good at all. You missed out on Supernatural Kyle, I did too.
Speaker 2:I did too. I didn't get the hype. Like some people love that, I still get the hype. Did you watch?
Speaker 1:it. I've seen enough of it to know what it's about. I have friends who are like deeply in love with it. That should went on for like 11 years. Yeah, definitely it's huge. What about, like Buffy? I'd ever got into that that was a what's the guys named. Yeah, joss Whedon. Yep, I'm a firefly guy and but I never watched. Buffy Again, that's too old. Buffy was before firefly right.
Speaker 1:Yeah so that was like early 90s, so I'm not, can't have it, man. X files. I was just going to bring that up. I missed that entire. I were just too old, a little or too young, for that for that that was definitely a show that was never going to be on with, like my family. It was no way we were watching anything like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah what about you, kyle? What do you feel like you've missed out with? Or jingle bees, what?
Speaker 1:nerd background, I feel like I'm missing out on stuff now because there's so much of Everything, like. Like, every person I talked to has a show that I have to watch but I feel like the ones we're bringing up are like cultural cultural Phenomenons and versus, like some of the stuff that people are watching now.
Speaker 2:It's not really on the same level as Game of Thrones or Walking Dead or you know like those were big.
Speaker 1:Is there even a show right now that Rivals that like game of Thrones, like stranger things? Maybe the first couple seasons, yeah not anymore.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've caught up.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've caught a lot. I Don't know what that means. It's super natural I've caught I've. I just watched Star Wars during COVID for the first time. That's respectable. I think you could totally skip Star Wars. I don't think it's that damn good. I'm being honest, I much prefer Star Trek. That's just my opinion.
Speaker 2:Then I jumped in head first and binged Clone Wars and I'm obsessed.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Well, I've seen them all as what I'm saying yeah. Yeah, I was a guy that does his due diligence. If it's oh, oh, are we throwing shade.
Speaker 2:I mean, Do you really say that when we watch? Say it back when we were watching like Loki and stuff. Remember how long it took him to catch up.
Speaker 1:That's not a cultural phenomenon. So like he's gone, cultural phenomenon all the stuff that, like, you need to have seen. He's seen it for sure, true, I guess. But then this then he talks to us enough, and I just simped to Loki and he's like, okay, I get it Because he reads the synopsis. He doesn't fucking care about Spoilers, so he's he's unique. Okay, he's just like, I just want to know what. I don't want to be surprised. I don't know every single thing, that fucking happens.
Speaker 2:Okay, I would say, oh, what I missed out on is Star Trek. I never. Like you know they're doing all the new ones like the next generation or the one with Professor X from X-Men yeah, was that you knew I was at the next generation, new generation or I don't remember. But like I never got into Star Trek, I never besides the movies, the JJ Abrams that's my only like Exposure.
Speaker 1:I went back, I sat down and I like charted out all the Star Trek that I wanted to watch and I was like, okay, I'm gonna watch it in this order and I I made it through, I think, seasons of the original Star Trek. That's tough to get through, dude, that's a slog Because it's so dated we're talking 60s there and the it's not even the production quality. Actually, I don't mind that a lot of the direction. It actually is much more of a serious tone. They don't have like a lot of the Like the the background music sort of just playing, but it's the it's the added effects that have this weird like digital Like, like everything is just like 8-bit audio. Star Trek was Kyle's life.
Speaker 2:Can you confirm, billy?
Speaker 1:one of the few Star Trek was not my life growing up.
Speaker 2:No, no, Kyle's. Did you spit at him for that one too?
Speaker 1:I definitely spit on him for liking Star Trek, no so called him nerd. I would say Kyle definitely likes both equally, and maybe not equally, but he likes them both a lot. I Probably say he. I'm curious, kyle, I would guess that you probably lean more to Star Wars just because of your love of the games. I think you love that if you gotta look at it holistically, not just the movies, but like if you take all of like Star Wars world concept, like Content lore games, lore, everything that's been made for it.
Speaker 1:I think, on balance, you like Star Wars more. That'd be my guess love the original series.
Speaker 2:I think you talk about Star Trek.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, star Wars never had a, I mean, unless he's talking like the original trilogy yeah. Star Wars? I definitely. I think I was a late bloomer too as well. I pirated the movies. I Didn't say that out loud the police are outside right now. That's the only chance I could ever watch him. And then I watched him and I was like, okay, these are okay.
Speaker 2:But Kyle's, what's your answer?
Speaker 1:though which one start he said he does. I do, in terms of I like Star Wars more, okay, okay, but Star Trek's, how is that? Yeah, I mean so, jingle bees, you're watching Clone Wars, that the animated series, right now you're talking about Clone Wars. What is that? What movies that that's?
Speaker 2:number two she's talking about what it's one, that's two in the prequels. Clone Wars is the, also the animated series that was first like hand-drawn animation and then it evolved into like a CG Binged it all that's a.
Speaker 1:How many seasons of that were there Trying to there?
Speaker 2:was a lot because they I don't know they brought it back to I know. I think Kyle watched it all too, I believe I.
Speaker 1:Don't think I finished it. I watched a little bit of it.
Speaker 2:But it was aired out of order, so I needed a reddit post watching what the fuck is with that.
Speaker 1:What did People suck in the 90s like? Did not figure out how the fuck to? That's what happened. That's what plagued firefly. Yeah they aired the pilot week two. They did episode three, week one. What the fuck are we talking? Seven seasons, a lot of Clone Wars. Yeah, I mean, I could complain about firefly for days. Jingle bees, do you ever watch firefly? You seem to be in the sci-fi shit. Firefly is goaded in my it's so good.
Speaker 1:Fringe as well. I like both. Those are my top two series TV series. Firefly probably is good just because it ended so early. Probably it probably would have became Stupid if it kept going, like a lot of shows do.
Speaker 2:But I've heard a lot of good things about the expanse Dude, okay, I keep seeing ads for that shit.
Speaker 1:I'm watching the foundation right now and I'm enjoying that, but expanse is probably something I watch next.
Speaker 2:There's. They made a telltale video game for it. What do you think? I didn't play yet because I I plan to like watch the show. I.
Speaker 1:Love firefly fucking. You saw firefire, right, yeah, and I watched the movie so good. I wish we could have gotten like four seasons of that, but it's way too late to relaunch. Yeah it would need to be its own thing Like.
Speaker 2:I don't know, like yeah, it only worked because of the time that it came out at, and like I Don't think you could recreate it, but we, we had this whole discussion. I think we're playing like destiny or something. We're talking about yeah, I mean Kyle. We're fine with them relaunching it with with this original, with the original cast. But you're like no, I want new people.
Speaker 1:It's too fucking late now. We're talking like 25 years old. He could be older, it's just. I Don't need a wrinkly ass. Book is dead in real life, like he did not. He's not alive anymore, so he's dead in the show. So he didn't make it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Guess I need to watch the expanse.
Speaker 2:How many seasons is the expanse? I think this is too, isn't it so? Set the story 25 years later. Yeah, see Kyle's onto it right there. Problem solved, ha ha.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like the whole thing was like there were rag tag, new group like we I literally am repeating myself at this point but like then the whole reaver thing would have been figured out, because I was like brand new whoa, like that whole thing, what would they just be at at war at this point. The expanse has six seasons. I thought this was season two.
Speaker 2:No, it's been going on for a while shit. And people are still hype for it. I mean, they just released a video game, so obviously. The expanse is great Kyle says so. Kyle has seen it.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I'm watching. I'm watching foundation. It's good, but only because of Lee Pace. The rest of the show is fucking kind of wack.
Speaker 2:One show, so that's Apple TV, right yeah, one show I've been interested in is I believe it's on Apple TV lovecraft country. I.
Speaker 1:Don't know what you're talking about lovecraft countries that I could gay cowboy thing.
Speaker 2:Oh my god.
Speaker 1:Do you know what lovecraft?
Speaker 2:is lovecraft in horror like witchcraft stuff no.
Speaker 1:So lovecraft is like.
Speaker 2:Cthulhu, you know Cthulhu bird box. Yeah, it's um. Oh no, it's HBO Mac. What is it?
Speaker 1:It is HBO Max, oh, so I have but it says the expanse is on Amazon, though, jonathan majors, though that's like oh, that's his, that's his baby.
Speaker 2:That's his show was born from yeah. But it's like. It's like a Cosmic horror film or TV series. Hmm, bloodborne. Why was bloodborne brought?
Speaker 1:up because it's like Cthulhu.
Speaker 2:Yes, there you go.
Speaker 1:You have a ADHD.
Speaker 2:No, just we got like six different conversations because Kyle responds, and it's cold being a streamer.
Speaker 1:Okay, dylan, you just have to know what we're talking about. No, I'm kidding. See, look, you just responded just now our yeah, of course, because it's about seven seconds late. Imagine when we have our chat just, and you got like people who are an hour behind. That's that's what usually happens with our chat, right, it does when I stream on my alt channel. Yeah, my only fans, those streams get a little little spicy. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Why don't you bring your fans over here? What's the deal?
Speaker 1:because they're only fans on that platform.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's that only.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's yes often confused with the other doing Jesus. That's right, kyle, show you a nip slip later on, just just for you, baby.
Speaker 2:After you, spit on him and calm nerd. That's his kink.
Speaker 1:He knew what he wanted when he was eight.
Speaker 2:That makes sense he wanted it, I'm so getting when he was eight years old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a relationship that we've developed for years, if it makes any better. I was nine.
Speaker 2:What is it like? The love, love, oh.
Speaker 1:Romeo and.
Speaker 2:Juliet laws take place for you guys, so it's fine. It's not Rapey, or anything.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know if it's fine, but it's Maybe legally not crazy. I I don't know. But no, there was no. Everything was above the table. Okay, no one on the table the stomping I never spit on Kyle Intentionally. I'm sure I've talked about my spit on him.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't believe you. Look at this.
Speaker 1:The. You know he's not even here and you're agreeing with them. Yeah, that's all it takes.
Speaker 2:That's spins a web of bullshit. That's how me and Kyle run same wavelength. Okay, yeah, sure, even when he's not here, he's here in my heart.
Speaker 1:Oh, why that's coming through loud and clear.
Speaker 2:Any Kyle back me up. He's selling you to keep up. I know I'm back me up, kyle, yeah.
Speaker 1:He's gonna profess his deep, deep love for me.
Speaker 2:He already professed it for me. Hmm, I was first. Mine is recorded on the Instagram forever.
Speaker 1:I'm hella delayed.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I support you, dylan.
Speaker 2:That's right, how so?
Speaker 1:me. Maybe he did. All right, check the tape, check the tape, all right. Don't work if people find us.
Speaker 2:They can find us on Instagram, youtube, any major podcast listening platform you listen to, such as Spotify or podcast addict Under a Katie ratio podcast. Come look us up, give us a follow, like and leave a comment. We'd really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Awesome, all right guys. With a good Katie you get the dub. Bye guys you.